August 5, 2017 at 6:10 pm #44308
thank you PCM2 for your recommendations about Flickering and Blue light.
Surfing the internet I’m still a little bit confused about resolution. I have a Dell 9560 with a FHD display. If I buy a 27″ monitor, a Full HD resolution will be enough or I will see the pixels? If I buy a monitor with a bigger resolution I will see icons and text smaller resulting in eye problems?
ThanksAugust 6, 2017 at 7:30 am #44310
A lot depends on your eyesight and viewing distance. The pixel density will obviously be considerable worse when comparing a 27″ Full HD screen to a much smaller (laptop) full HD screen. However; you would likely be sititng a fair bit further back from the 27″ monitor as well. These factors come into play for higher resolutions, in the sense that your viewing comfort will diminish if you are finding things hard to see or read (i.e. dependent on viewing distance and eyesight). So really it’s something you’d have to see for yourself.
I find 32″ UHD screens perfectly comfortable to use for extended periods, from a distance of ~70 – 80cm. But my eyesight is very sharp – with higher resolutions you also have the option of applying a bit of scaling or using application-specific zoom if needed. Even with a bit of that added to the equation you can gain advantage in terms of ‘screen real-estate’ compared to a lower resolution model.August 6, 2017 at 10:17 am #44313
I really like the ASUS vx279h and vc279h. Which do you recommend?August 6, 2017 at 11:17 am #44314
They’re both quite decent actually, for your uses. The VC279H is a bit better calibrated out of the box and offers the advantage of some VESA holes should you wish to mount it to a more flexible stand later. It is also a bit more responsive (less inverse ghosting). It uses a slightly newer variant of the panel used on the VX279H.August 6, 2017 at 11:39 am #44315
At work I’m used to a Samsung S24D330H and at home I have a ASUS X58Le laptop with a 15.6″ HD (1366×768) display. So I think that even with monitor like the VC279H I will improve my experience! 😀August 6, 2017 at 4:56 pm #44316
Undoubtedly so.August 8, 2017 at 5:47 pm #44330
Just reporting back. I picked up a Dell U2515H. This thing is absolutely horrible on the eyes for daily use. No matter which way I set it up, it feels like the backlight is killing my eyes. The white is way too bright on this thing. Even at the lowest brightness settings between 10 and 0 it still feels too bright and the contrast seems to suffer too much for primary text use. And without using software to alter the color temperature, it has a strong underlying blue look about it along with the crazy brightness that really bothers my eyes. Even when using software for altering the color temperature (after exhausting the OSD parameters) there is always an underlying blue tinge to it.
I also figured out that I want hi ppi for text. With 200% scaling on, fonts look so much sharper. But with a resolution of 2560 x 1440 scaled 200%, desktop space is much too low. A 4k display with 200% scaling on would provide 1080 desktop space, which would be adequate for my uses, but I’m not seeing much in way of small 4k displays outside of laptops. I know that some software will not yet cooperate correctly with 4k and scaling, but the alternative is to not use a computer at all due to the intolerance of crappy looking text.
In all my searching on the web and various discussions across sites I have noticed something that just doesn’t seem to be getting across. People who work with text all day have different requirements than people who work with images, video, and gaming. Working with text (such as programming) requires intense focus on small symbols for prolonged periods of time. Display characteristics which probably should be at the bottom of the list are color accuracy, display angles, high brightness capability, motion blur, lag. Yet over and over, displays are recommended based upon these characteristics. Characteristics which should be highest on the list are good contrast performance at very low brightness capability, color temperature of backlighting, high resolution (even text quality on a 1440 with no display scaling is pretty bad), and adequate usable space with display scaling. In other words, displaying of text should be as near as it can get to ink on paper, where looking at the display doesn’t feel like staring into a bug light and text edges don’t look like watery ink. Dim white (that isn’t blue), deep black, and sharp edges.
That said, I’m still looking for a monitor that won’t kill my eyes, for text use. But asking around on the internet is like asking for a decent knife for skinning a fish, where everyone keeps recommending the best spoon for eating pudding. At this point I would be happy to find a monitor that is only good for text and absolutely nothing else. Eye comfort is most important to me, which seemingly has zilch to do with the usual culprits of color accuracy, viewing angles, and so on.
Apologies if this sounds like a rant, but it seems that the bias needs to be adjusted toward legibility and eye comfort over pretty colors, viewing angles, and insane brightness.August 8, 2017 at 6:15 pm #44331
I’m sorry to hear that you didn’t get on with the Dell U2515H. What your post and indeed this thread highlights more broadly, though, is that everybody’s eyes are different. The majority of users find the U2515H perfectly comfortable for extended periods of text-based work. And the minimum luminance is 35 cd/m2 – very dim indeed. The fact you are still finding that ‘bright’ reinforces what I said before – you clearly have a spectral sensitivity to that kind of backlight. It is not bright, it just physically isn’t. If you look back at what I suggested, my last post which you never actually replied to (https://forum.pcmonitors.info/topic/easiest-monitor-on-eyes-for-daily-usage/page/45/#post-43454), you’d see I was clearly suggesting you go for a model with a wider colour gamut such as the UP2516D.
Since you mentioned a preference for higher pixel density, perhaps consider something like the AOC U3277PWQU instead. If you have the desk space.August 8, 2017 at 6:38 pm #44332
PCM2, can you explain to me what wide gamut has to do with displaying text and eye comfort?
Also, that Dell is going to scale the same as the U2515H. While fonts look smooth at 200% scaling, they are too big which would require placing the monitor pretty far away, which would likely null higher dpi. The second monitor at 32″ is going to be much the same with 200% scaling. Does no one make a small 4k monitor? If not, that is too bad. 1080 desktop space on a 17″-22″ monitor is decent, but text is low res at 1080. And using scaling under 200% (non-integer) sounds like a complete headache.August 8, 2017 at 6:41 pm #44333
If you’re sensitive to the spectrum of the backlight, which is entirely different on a wide gamut model, it doesn’t matter what you’re doing on the monitor. It’s going to cause you issues. You won’t do yourself any favours by focussing purely on ‘text’ when thinking about what you want from a monitor and ignoring the bigger picture. Such as how the ‘text space’ is illuminated. The text rendering on the U2515H is absolutely spot on in many respects, but if the backlight is causing issues that doesn’t matter one jot.
You seemed to understand all of this on the previous page (https://forum.pcmonitors.info/topic/easiest-monitor-on-eyes-for-daily-usage/page/45/#post-43454), not sure why the confusion now.August 8, 2017 at 6:59 pm #44334
I edited my post above.
I think what I wasn’t clear on, and what you seem to be saying, is that wide gamut displays use a different backlight type, i.e., GB-LED. Is that what you are meaning to say? When you say wide gamut without mention of the backlight type, it comes across as focusing on color accuracy capability (which I am not really interested in) rather than the visual quality of the backlight type.
In my opinion, text edge quality on the U2515H (not to single it out) isn’t very good without scaling. And with 200% scaling, text is much too big with very little usable desktop space (720 vertical space). I think that a small 4k display scaled to 200% would be ideal. And if GB-LED backlighting is helpful for eye comfort, that would be ideal, too. But I’m not seeing anything like that available. Do any 4k laptop displays use GB-LED backlighting?
Also, apologies if we are getting our wires crossed here. I often find that when attempting to clarify what someone is saying, my questions can be perceived as having an aggressive tone, which is not intended.August 8, 2017 at 7:13 pm #44335
That’s correct. Wide gamut needs to be mentioned because that is a signal of a monitor with a more balanced spectrum, one quite different to the Dell which you found problematic. I explained this on the previous page.
The best pixel density you’ll find would be on a 23.6″ ‘4K’ UHD display at the moment. Or on an ‘8K’ display – a few of those will be shown off at IFA and some already exist, but they’re pretty expensive and I think you’d likely be better off going for a smaller 4K display if anything. The problem is most of these smaller UHD displays, currently, are standard gamut (similar backlight to the Dell). And they tend to have quite grainy matte screen surfaces.
In terms of laptops, my partner actually owns the Dell Alienware 13″ with OLED. I find it excellent for text rendering. It isn’t ‘4K’, it’s 2560 x 1440 – but on such a tiny screen that gives it an excellent pixel density.August 8, 2017 at 7:30 pm #44336
The ppi of a 13″ 2560 x 1440 display sounds very attractive for text. I only worry about the brightness of OLED, and I wonder how it compares to GB-LED backlighting. The OLED on my phone is very bright, and I tend to keep it turned down low and adjusted to a much warmer color. Text clarity is brilliant, but the the lighting can be fatiguing on my eyes.
Another option for me might be a 21.5″ 4k imac. I haven’t looked into imac’s before, but I’m seeing that they are reported as being wide gamut. One downside to an imac display seems to be that they are glossy, which will require some strategic lighting to avoid glare.August 8, 2017 at 7:35 pm #44337
The Alienware laptop is also glossy, so you do have to be careful not to have light striking the screen surface directly or have ambient lighting that’s too bright. The interesting thing about the laptop is that it is PWM-regulated. It’s actually set to 100% brightness to avoid this but calibrated to a lower brightness level using ICC profiles (i.e. digitally). I also have a specific night profile set to a much lower colour temperature (like a Low Blue Light setting). The nice thing about OLED is that, because the contrast ratio is exceptional, you can digitally adjust brightness whilst still having excellent contrast. It isn’t like an LCD where you can knock back the white point with the ICC profile, but the backlight remains just as strong and black depth remains exactly the same.August 8, 2017 at 7:55 pm #44338
PCM2, thanks for providing some useful things to consider. I really wanted to continue using my desktop pc, but eye comfort is absolutely most important to me at this stage. So it’s looking like I need to doing some reading up on OLED displays in laptops vs. an imac display. I’m reading that imac displays also use PWM (and both are glossy), so I guess the most important factors will be constrast at low brightness and achievable color temperature. And it sounds like OLED has the advantage in that regard. Many thanks for your patience.
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