August 9, 2017 at 12:31 pm #44340
Just a response to the Dell u2515h, I currently use one with my brightness set at 20 and contrast set at 50 on the standard pre-set which I have calibrated.
Out of the box this monitor is bright and I was used to a Dell CRT monitor before this.
One thing that I will mention is that if you don’t have a recent enough graphics card you will not get 2560×1440 out of this monitor and will default to 2048×1152 and the text will not be as sharp.August 9, 2017 at 5:21 pm #44341
Drekod, brightness at 20 for the U2515H is still very uncomfortable to me. White backgrounds on this display are like staring into a fluorescent light to my eyes. After a week of fiddling with the thing I have not been able to come up with a brightness and color temperature combination that is comfortable to my eyes. The best comfort range I have achieved has been with a 10-15 brightness level with a VERY warm color temperature, such as 4500k. The very poor TN panel on a laptop that I have causes much less eye fatigue. Keep in mind that my primary use is working with text. I have also tried darker colored backgrounds on the U2515H, but it isn’t much help. There is an underlying glow that fatigues my eyes. I think this is an issue with W-LED backlighting.
Also, my graphics card is capable of the native resolution for the U2515H. But I find myself wanting sharper fonts unless I up the display scaling quite a bit, which of course makes fonts way too big and uses up too much screen space. I think that high res scaled to 200% would be good for text clarity without scaling headaches, which is essentially what apple has been doing with retina displays since 2012. I used to gawk at Apple hardware prices, but now I better understand.
The problem here is in finding a wide gamut display (because of the different backlight type) that is also 4k. At that price point, along with upgrading my video card for 4k, I might as well get either an oled laptop or an imac, both of which would offer a different backlight type and good ppi for text clarity.
To be critical about it, I think that finding a display with comfortable backlighting is likely more important than increased clarity of higher ppi. Tomorrow I’m going to have a good look at various display types to see what I think. The problem in that is having enough time in front of a given display type and not having time to make adjustments for finding out what is most comfortable. But maybe it will better clue me in on what I might find to be comfortable.August 12, 2017 at 8:06 am #44349
Hey PCM2. I’m new here, and I’ve reading the suggestions that you gave others. It seems like the LG 22MP58VQ could work for me, but I’m not sure because of the response time. That’s why I was wondering if you could tell me which one of these monitors is the best for reading and gaming (shooters), please? The most important thing is that it’s easy on the eyes. My old monitor just died (2233rz,) and I’m kind of afraid to switch to another monitor because of the HZ. Anyway, here’s the list with the ones that I can go for:
I’d be great if you could help me out with this – I’d be very grateful!August 12, 2017 at 8:07 am #44352
If you are getting significantly above 60fps in your games, then the downgrade to a 60Hz monitor most likely will be noticeable. Why are you not considering high refresh rate models? What was it about your 120Hz Samsung that you did and didn’t like?August 12, 2017 at 7:52 pm #44353
Unfortunately, I have a low budget to buy a monitor at the moment. I can buy anything between $150 and $220. The problem is that in my country they’re selling things kind of way overpriced, and I don’t have much variety to choose from either. They only have:
They’re not selling 120Hz monitors anymore. Otherwise, I would go for one of those right away. For example, here they’re selling the Asus VG248QE for $360, while in the U.S. it’s only $279. So at the moment, I’m limited to the options that I just pointed out. I can share the two websites I’m browsing if you want to take a look. I thought about ordering a good one from the U.S., but then there will be more cash involved because of the taxes.
My old monitor was working nicely until one day, the power supply stopped working the way it should be; it shows me image for 2 secs and then it goes black again. I contacted customer support, and they told me that they don’t have the part that I need anymore. That’s pretty much it. Thanks for taking the time to help me out!August 13, 2017 at 7:51 am #44354
Yeah, those prices are rather steep. In that case you may be able to set some of the models you list to 72-75Hz or so, some models like this run at such refresh rates without issue at 1920 x 1080. I know for a fact you can do with the Samsung S24E390HL – but you didn’t list this so I assume that’s not available at a good price? I’ve also had a user state that 75Hz works properly with the LG 24MP48HQ. And it seems a perfectly decent monitor for the price.August 13, 2017 at 8:44 pm #44358
Thanks for letting me know about that. I didn’t know that they could run at such refresh rates – that’s great! Sadly, they don’t have the Samsung S24E390HL. And it doesn’t seem like any store around here is selling it either. The other two models that they have are the Samsung LC24FG70 and the Samsung LU28E590DS/ZS. But as you can imagine, they’re kind of overpriced as well. I’ll definitively take a look at the LG 24MP48HQ that you’re suggesting. It seems like a nice one to go for. Also, if you don’t mind, is there any difference between the LG 24MP48HQ and the LG 24MP48HQ-P? I just found out that there is a version with the letter “P” at the end. Thanks for the help!August 18, 2017 at 5:29 pm #44387
I’m still monitor hopping over here in hope of finding out what the problem is. The latest (and oldest) is an HP LP2480ZX. I noticed out of the box that text is less blurry, despite this monitor having what appears to be a more aggressive anti-glare coating, having lower resolution, and I think it also uses PWM. This monitor is noticably more comfortable to my eyes, although still fatiguing over time. I don’t know anything about the technical aspects (yet), but it seems to me that different monitors draw fonts very differently. I noticed that when I turn off anti-aliasing, the U2515H draws fonts that look very distorted in comparison to having anti-aliasing on, where on the LP2480ZX raw fonts look much closer to what they look like with anti-aliasing on. I also noticed that the U2515H looks best with hinting at either none or slight, where the LP24080ZX looks the worst at those settings. Further, I noticed that my eyes can’t stay focused when looking at text on the U2515H, and when switching anti-aliasing off and on, there is a much bigger jump in blur than for the LP24080ZX. The LP24080ZX still leaves alot to be desired for text, but text is noticably sharper than on the U2515H, despite being more blocky due to lower resolution. After adjusting brightness and color temperature to make a monitor more comfortable to look at, I think this is the primary problem that I’m having with eye fatigue (sharpness of fonts). Just to clarify what I mean by sharpness, let me say that best text sharpness on any monitor is going to be with anti-alising off. Obviously, having anti-alising off is very ugly, but font edges are sharp, providing a base from which to judge the sharpness of anti-aliased text. With anti-aliasing off there is an amount of font shape distortion, and it seems to me that the more distorted that raw fonts are on a monitor, the worse fonts are going to look with anti-aliasing on. Keep in mind that I’m not talking about blockiness of fonts, here. What I am talking about is that with anti-aliasing off you might expect that a character has a somewhat even line thickness, which is much less so on the U2515H than on the LP2480ZX.
Unfortunately, the LP24080ZX that I received has a very pink tint to it (a common electronic failure in this monitor), and I’ll be sending it back to the seller. I can adjust the monitor to have a much more normal gamma, but this monitor obviously has problems that will worsen with time. Any way, I wanted to do a little investigating on RGB-LED backlighting vs. W-LED, which I think it likely amounts to nothing much as far as eye comfort goes. Although the white glow around white elements (such as fonts) is a bit less on this monitor than on the U2515H (most noticable with white text on a black background), I think that it isn’t enough to make much of a difference for eye comfort with text.
On this topic of how sharp a monitor draws text, Tftcentral provides images of text at native resolution and text at an interpolated resolution in their monitor reviews. When I look at the images for the Ultrasharp monitors (and for most other monitors), what I notice is that fonts at native resolution are blurry. Keep in mind that the images are zoomed to subpixel level, but if text is blurry at that level, it is also going to be blurry in use at regular viewing distance. For example, take a look at fonts on the U2515H (searching the page for ‘interpolation’ will jump near the image). http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/dell_u2515h.htm
And on the Acer Z271 (only image at tftcentral that I have found so far with decently sharp text at the subpixel level) http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/acer_predator_z271.htm
The image that looks least blurry to my eyes is the first one on the Acer page. The others make my eyes feel uncomfortable. Keep in mind that all of these images are with anti-aliasing on as far as I know.
Looking at other images at tftcentral of text at the subpixel level I am noticing various anomalies. On some monitors, text has a dark and thin center line with lighter edges; some have what looks like an offset doubling; some have obvious colors bleeding into the edges.
I am interested in knowing more about this topic. I think that how each monitor draws text plays a critical role in eye fatigue. I would also like to know more about how roles monitor resolution and different methods of anti-aliasing play in the result of sharp text. What I think that I am discovering here for myself (I haven’t seen this talked about anywhere on the net) is that what matters to my eyes is not so much the smoothness of text edges (a function of resolution), but rather, how sharp and defined the edges of text are (a function of ?).
Also, I would like to see monitor reviews which take this topic into consideration, including images of non-antialised text and anti-aliased text.August 18, 2017 at 5:35 pm #44388
Sorry, you’re not permitted to hotlink directly to images from TFT Central here; that’s a favour to Simon’s server if nothing else. Anyway, I find looking at text rendering at such a level uninformative at best and misleading at worst. That’s why I don’t include such analysis in my own reviews, except for very specific purposes such as analysing issues related to subpixel layout. Any assessment beyond that is utterly pointless.
It’s quite simple. If a monitor has a ‘normal’ subpixel layout without split subpixels or squat subpixels (some VA models combine both of these and therefore do have text-related issues) then there are two main differentiators. One is the screen surface, the other is pixel density.August 18, 2017 at 5:51 pm #44391
If it is ok, I will edit my last post to include links to tftcental pages rather than hotlinks.
We will have to disagree on the sharpness of text at sub-pixel level. I can see it directly here with my own eyes. On the U2515H, my eyes can never maintain focus on text, at any reasonable font size or scaling. I can literally see my eyes constantly going in and out of focus. Where on the HP2480ZX, text is far from being smooth, but my eyes are not jumping in and out of focus. If you have ever seen one of those t-shirts with ‘BLUR’ printed on it, that is what I think is happening when looking at a monitor that has blurred edges around fonts. How can this not be an issue for eye comfort? I think you might be underestimating the ability of our eyes to deal with such anomalies (or at least some of us).August 18, 2017 at 6:30 pm #44392
I see, I sort of skim read what you had said originally (been a bit busy with other things). I think I see what you’re getting at now. What you observe with your own eyes wasn’t being disputed. What you can actually see when observing macros of text being rendered is another thing – it’s extremely artificial and not generally representative of what you actually see. However; analysing the actual subpixel structure itself is very useful indeed. With the two models you’re considering, you’re comparing two monitors with different screen surfaces and pixel densities there as well. So it isn’t necessarily that the subpixel structure is causing you issues, but it is certainly possible.
Here is a clearer example for you of the subpixel structure on the 25″ IPS panels. This is taken from our recent Dell U2518D review, but the layout is exactly as it is on the U2515H:
Compare that with the UP2716D, which was the model I had specifically recommended for you as well. Notice how squat the U2518D subpixels are in comparison, with relatively large vertical pixel gaps compared to the below:
It may therefore be worth investigating 27″ models instead of 25″ ones, even if the pixel density is slightly slacker.August 18, 2017 at 7:47 pm #44397
I’ll try to get some macro shots of pixels on these two monitors this weekend, phone camera alllowing.August 22, 2017 at 6:25 pm #44408
So for the LP2480ZX that I bought, the seller is going to send me a replacement that doesn’t have the pink tint to it. I will wait until it arrives before uploading some proper comparison photos.
But I did have a go at casually taking some subpixel shots of the U2515H in the meantime. The few shots provided here are far from proper, but the process of taking a bunch of photos at the subpixel level gave me a much better idea of how displays compare with paper (I don’t have any eye fatigue with paper) and what my eyes are dealing with.
Some anti-aliased text.
What I notice here is very fuzzy edges of fonts.
Some non anti-alised text.
What I notice here is how mishaped the fonts are. This was on a green background that is much more relaxing to my eyes…again, this isn’t really a properly done round of photos.
And a shot of paper for comparison.
After flipping back to the image provided at tftcentral of text on the Acer Z271, I notice a big difference in edge clarity on fonts. I think it is down to the bigger pixels on that monitor and maybe the better blacks of the VA panel helps in displaying more defined edges. Search this page for ‘interpolation’ to jump to the image: http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/acer_predator_z271.htm
Counter to what I would have thought before, I may be looking for a monitor with a VA panel and large pixels. That Acer has a pixel pitch of 0.3113, which is pretty huge. But my eyes tell me that text edges would look better on a monitor like that, where the line weight of fonts is a pixel wide without obvious adjacent grey pixels or strong colored edges as I am seeing in photos at tftcentral of other monitors and in some photos that I have been taking of various displays. And really big text that has more defined edges would not bother me. Big text is easier on the eyes any way, even with good eye sight. What is not clear to me is at what pixel pitch edges of text begin to appear blurred due to effects of anti-aliasing or other factors.
Considering OLED, what bothers me is the potential for screen burn-in and brightness (and being tied to a small laptop). I may be wrong on this, but it seems that a VA panel would have better legibility at lower brightness due to higher contrast capability over ips with the potential problem of PWM for OLED. I can only wonder how OLED compares to a VA for contrast, where OLED brightness is adjusted through software rather than via the display.August 22, 2017 at 7:11 pm #44409
Something that I have also noticed with the U2515H is that my eyes feel more comfortable over time with the brightness at 50 and contrast at 25. Pulling down the contrast more than the brightness results in a dimmer display than the other way around, which may be the reason for improved eye comfort. With brightness set low, increasing contrast beyond 50 doesn’t seem to have much effect.
I think that the main two factors of why this display doesn’t work for me for text is the brightness (and contrast capability at low brightness) and the effects of this monitor’s pixel geometry on anti-aliased text edges.August 23, 2017 at 7:31 am #44415
It’ll be intersting to see what you capture on the HP. It’s really difficult to judge anything from those photos and I still feel the ‘PCM’ indication in my above shot is a lot clearer, but it will still be interesting to compare with the HP. The squat subpixels combined with the relative lack of contrast could certainly be the cause of your dislike of text display on the monitor, although the contrast factor could go the other way. It is known that some users actually find lower contrast more comfortable on the eye as the monitor spends less time adapting between bright and dark. It would also have secondary focal benefits if you’re finding the edges of text obnoxious and therefore the text difficult to focus on, by making the edges blend in more seamlessly. You could try setting the Dell to a lower contrast and seeing if you find things any better.
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