[AliveNoMore]

Alright, that is much clearer. Thank you.

Regarding feedback, I will gladly provide it once I get the monitor up and running in a few/several days, although I’m not sure how useful said feedback would be, as I have no basis for comparison to other high…I guess they are now medium refresh rate monitors. I’m very much behind the times when it comes to monitors. I’ve not had or seen anything above 1080p@60Hz (LCD, I mean, CRTs don’t count). But still, I’ll make sure to drop by and share my thoughts as soon as possible.

[EsaT]

Interesting response times in Cooler Master GM27-FQS:
https://tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/cooler-master-gm27-fqs-argb

Looks like it has variable overdrive… Or something.
But response times not slowing down with refresh rates doesn’t fit with variable overdrive:
Avoiding increase of overshoot at lower refresh rate should mean use of lower overdrive pulse and resulting slower transitions.
Instead response times (and overshoots) are basically constant regardless of refresh rate.

So I wonder if overdrive has been kind of “decoupled” from refresh rate:
Instead of overdrive pulse being applied for duration of whole frame, it’s applied only for some fixed duration and pixel’s control signal value is then changed to what input signal asked for that frame.

[PCM2]

That is indeed interesting (and unusual) behaviour. I wonder if it’s unique to the “Dynamic” setting, or whether pixel response behaviour is similar at all refresh rates with the other settings as well.

[EsaT]

I wonder if AUO has developed some new panel controller chip and it come out in this.
Waiting for that could explain how it feels like high end panels have been kept delayed and delayed, while same old mediocre dozenware with new name panels have kept coming without any slowing down.

Decoupling overdrive pulse from frame refresh would fix “overdrive best for low fps is glacial slow for higher fps/overdrive best for high fps is unusably overshooting at low fps” problem at once.
Assuming communication speed/bandwidth between controller chip and LCD can handle it.
Processing power wise there shouldn’t be slightest problems with today’s IC manufacturing.

At 165Hz frame time is ~6.1 ms, so overdrive pulse applied for say 5 ms would work throughout the whole refresh rate range.
Though considering there are far higher refresh rate LCDs, overdrive being applied for shorter duration should be possible.
(+that hints communication speed/bandwidth being workable)

Too bad we didn’t get actual “scope shots” of this peculiar and new kind behaviour.
Those would have told far more about what’s going on.

[AliveNoMore]

Oh, boy! This is going to take some getting used to.

So, first impressions…
This thing is large. It’s funny, I thought I was ready for a 27″ monitor but it looks larger than I thought it would be. I guess it’s just because I’ve never had such a large display for my computer.
Build quality seems quite decent, better than my Dell monitors.
But… Holy color saturation out-of-the-box, Batman! It was borderline painful. I switched from “Premium” to “User” so it managed to calm that saturation down a bit. Dropped the brightness from 40 to 20. Looks better now. It would still require a period of adjustment but it’s much better.
The high refresh rate is definitely noticeable and pleasant, even on the Desktop. I noticed the smoother scrolling immediately, and it did put a smile on my face.
I increased the scaling in the Windows Settings to 125%. The recommended 100% seemed too small.
It is after I was fiddling with the software that I realized that this monitor actually has RGB lighting on the back. I thought to myself “Cool, maybe I can use it as some kind of ambient lighting.”, but sadly no, it’s very dim and barely noticeable. Kind of defeats the whole idea of putting RGB lighting there. But I guess it’s the law now that anything “gaming” has to have RGB somewhere. Otherwise the PCMR Gods will be angry.

I also updated the monitor’s firmware, which resulted in an error, although I don’t remember if it was only related to EDID or to the firmware as well, even though the monitor’s OSD actually showed the latest firmware (0.19 -> 0.20) so I assumed that only the EDID update had failed. Re-ran the update process but selected only the EDID files, and this time it was successful. So, I’ll assume everything is fine and leave it at that.

All in all, I’m happy with the purchase. I don’t know why I’m not happier. Maybe I’ve been so used to my Dell’s that my brain is so shocked that instead of perceiving it as better, it is perceiving it as different, which is why I’m not giggling like a schoolgirl, which is sort of happened when I got my LG C2 tv a little while ago.

[PCM2]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts on the MAG274QRF-QD, AliveNoMore.

The fact you’re coming from a very different monitor actually makes your feedback quite valuable. There are certainly many others in your position, who will be upgrading from a much older, smaller and lower resolution screen (with very different image characteristics) that they’ve held onto for a while. There are certainly some good positives in your experience already and I have no doubt you’ll get increasingly used to the monitor and find it less ‘alien’ in time. 🙂

[AliveNoMore]

In that case, I can elaborate a bit more, although I should preface this again by saying that video/image is not my forte so my descriptions may not be particularly accurate.
Also, this will be a bit rant-y.

The Dell monitors I have are the U2414H and the P2419H, and they are indeed very different compared to the MAG274QRF-QD. The latter, out-of-the-box, seems to use the “Premium Color” mode, which was apparently added in one of the more firmware updates (most likely 0.19), and it pushes saturation to insane levels in my opinion. It reminded me of the Slo-Mo scenes from Dredd. To me, in that mode, the monitor was unusable. The User mode is much more manageable. The sRGB option is indeed the closest to what my Dell’s look like. I have the U2414H as a secondary, and can compare them side by side. The MAG274QRF-QD, by comparison, I feel has a slight green-ish tint, and it’s as if the gamma is lower(?), the image appears overall a bit brighter.

I already mentioned that the RGB on the back is a complete waste, but I also feel that the 3.5mm audio jack and the two USB ports are also kind of useless, at least in their current position, which is right along the remaining inputs (power, DP, HDMI). Plugging a thumb drive there would be very inconvenient, and defeats the purpose. Similar logic applies to the 3.5mm jack. This applies to my U2414H as well. I guess it’s about ticking of boxes: “it’s a ‘gaming’ monitor, so it has to have RGB somewhere” and “it’s a ‘modern’ monitor, so it has to have USB ports and/or a 3.5mm jack and/or built-in speakers, etc.” Gotta increase that “value” somehow. At least my P2419H had a couple of USB ports on the left side so they were very easily accessible.

Now for an opinion that would most likely require me to hand over my PCMR membership card: the high refresh rate isn’t wowing me all that much. Let me be clear: I do like, I do prefer it, it is an objective improvement. However, the difference isn’t night-and-day as some people make it out to be. I’ve read many opinions through the years, and I’ve concluded that the general consensus is that high refresh rate is incredible and “a must” (liek oh-em-gee, it’s sooooo much bettah), or at the very least a significant upgrade. I’m sorry, I just cannot agree. Going from FPS in the 30s and 40s to a solid 60 (or at the very least consistent upper 50s), now that is a significant upgrade.
The size and resolution are also much more significant from my perspective. Heck, I would put good color reproduction (even though it’s much more subjective and relative compared to size and resolution) ahead of high refresh rate. I’m even considering running the monitor at 120Hz, as running it at 165Hz causes my graphics card to jump its VRAM clock to maximum, which makes some sense on a technical level, but it annoys me, and also quadruples the GPU’s idle power consumption for little benefit: the jump from 60Hz to 120Hz is noticeable, whereas the jump from 120Hz to 165Hz basically isn’t. When it comes to refresh rate, the diminishing returns are in my opinion very real.

Back to the MAG274QRF-QD. I am actually pleased with its black uniformity. It is actually overall a little bit better than my U2414H, and significantly better than my P2419H, which has noticeable bleed. I’m also glad the monitor includes a sharpness setting (not sure how standard it is for monitors in general), as it usually helps in making text clearer. I like my text nice and clear, as I read a lot of it.

[PCM2]

Nice to read your extended impressions on the MSI, AliveNoMore. Good to see your black uniformity was impressive – and also interesting to see that you found the size and resolution upgrade much more noticeable and beneficial than the increased refresh rate. Not all monitors do offer sharpness control and sometimes it is a really aggressive filter with very rough control, so it’s not something that can always be fine-tuned according to taste.

When it comes to the refresh rate increase, it’s very subjective as everybody’s eyes and sensitivities are different. You will see a lot of hyperbole about this, a lot of ranting and raving and sometimes seemingly exaggerated claims. For me, personally, it is actually something of a night and day difference comparing a 60Hz to 165Hz experience, at suitable frame rate (I assume your content was indeed running at a suitably high frame rate?) The reduction in perceived blur and increase in ‘connected feel’ is something I notice very readily. I also appreciate the benefits of even higher refresh rates, but it’s certainly a case of diminishing returns. And having a monitor that’s really responsive enough to make full use of very high refresh rates is another issue entirely. I’ve also known some people to say they find the increase from say 60Hz to 120Hz+ to be “nice” but by no means essential to the experience – but when they go back to 60Hz after spending some time with 120Hz+ it can be a painful experience. Then there are others who will be absolutely fine with 60Hz or perhaps just a slight boost to 75Hz or so and really don’t feel or see the benefits beyond that – I call those people lucky. 😉

I’m personally a fan of where Dell (and their sub-brand Alienware) puts their USB ports and a headphone jack on some of their newer models. Outside of the main port area, facing downwards beneath the bottom bezel. It makes them very easy to access from the front even if you’re sitting down right in front of the screen – failing that access from the sides can be nice, but a bit less convenient if it’s a particularly large monitor and in particular ultrawide where those sides can be a bit of a stretch. And not as friendly for shorter cables, either. If you’re frequently connecting and disconnecting things, as you might expect to be doing with USB and a 3.5mm headphone jack, this ease of access either beneath the bottom bezel or at the sides makes a lot of sense in my book. I’m also with you when it comes to RGB LEDs. They can be useful if they’re powerful enough to act as a bias light. But more often than not they can only be ‘appreciated’ by the wall behind the screen, or give a very dim glow that can be just about seen from in front if the room is dark enough.

P.S. Hope you don’t mind, but your post inspired me to make a little Twitter poll. Nothing scientific here and anybody can vote regardless of whether they’ve experience 120Hz+ or not, so just a bit of fun. 🙂

[AliveNoMore]

I guess I’m one of those people who “find the increase from say 60Hz to 120Hz+ to be “nice” but by no means essential to the experience” as you eloquently put it. At least at the moment. Who knows, maybe I will get really accustomed to it. In my case, I will need to deal with high and low refresh rates, as my secondary monitor is the aforementioned U2414H, and my LG C2 TV is at 60Hz because the graphics card in my HTPC is a GTX 1060, and it lacks the HDMI 2.1 ports to properly handle 4K @ 144Hz. Not a huge loss since the only games I’ve played there are platformers using a controller, so the extra smoothness would be unnoticeable, and for movies and TV shows it’s irrelevant anyway. So perhaps this will train my brain to not get used to high refresh rates exclusively, i.e. my brain will remain “compatible” with 60Hz. 🙂 Only time will tell.

And no, I don’t mind the poll at all. In fact, I feel kind of flattered that I was the inspiration it, and hope you can get useful information/statistics out of it. I expect the leading answer to be “great for gaming” with “a must for everything” a somewhat close second.

[vonvorter]

I’ve been researching a ton and my criteria has narrowed down a ton.

I’ve pretty much completely given up on finding an IPS with a decent contrast ratio, or a VA with a minimal amount of smearing that isn’t the G7, so I think I’ll settle on just having decent black uniformity.

I was thinking about getting the M27Q, but the BGR subpixel layout seems unappealing. I know the better option would be the M27Q Pro, since it has decent black uniformity, and a RGB.

I’ve decided against almost all the LG panel monitors I’ve found, because they seem to have horrible contrast even for IPS, and some really bad blooming, but I’m open to suggestions if anyone knows of an LG monitor that’s okay in these areas.

The KTC H27T22 seems like a very interesting monitor, as it has decent contrast, and not too many caveats. Just a run of the mill 1440p 27 inch, for a good price. My only issue with it is there’s only one review out (Techless).

The CORSAIR XENEON 32QHD165 seems pretty fantastic in every area, but its 32 inches.

Any suggestions are welcome!

[PCM2]

Hi vonvorter,

I’ve merged your thread with this one as it is full of advice and recommendations in the sub-$400 range your original title indicated. I’m in agreement that you should avoid the LG Nano IPS panels because of weak contrast primarily, which would include the M27Q P. I also don’t feel the BGR subpixels are a good reason to avoid the M27Q unless you have a multi-monitor setup or know you are sensitive to fringing on the desktop and particularly if you spend a lot of time running force RGB-optimised applications such as reading PDFs. I’ve made various comments on that earlier in this thread and in a few others, but I’ve largely given up trying to convince people of this and all else being equal of course an RGB is preferred and provides peace of mind. This thread compares both Gigabyte models more specifically.

The 32QHD165 uses an AUO AHVA panel with QD LED backlight solution, just like a key model I recommend in this thread and dedicated section currently, the MSI MAG274QRF-QD. As for black uniformity, whilst some are more prone to issues there due to the design of the monitor, how the panel is seated or the specific panel and backlight unit used there’s a huge amount of inter-unit variation and no guarantees. Complex FALD solutions or well-implemented Uniformity Compensation (UC) technologies can help, but the latter eats away at contrast and neither technology is something relevant to your hunt in the sub-$400 range.

[vonvorter]

Thanks for the response! I didn’t know the M27Q P switched to the nano IPS panels, so that’s honestly disappointing. I most likely will get the M27Q to try it out as I feel like I’ll be fine with some odd-looking text even if I do notice it. The KTC-H27T22 is still my second choice though, as its on sale for 60 USD less than the M27Q, and uses the same AUO M270DAN08.2, that the MAG274QRF-QD uses.

[PCM2]

It’s worth noting that the AUO M270DAN08.2 CELL is used here by KTC which excludes the backlight component. The panel used by MSI includes a QD-LED backlight solution which gives it a very large colour gamut – around 97% DCI-P3 + 100% Adobe RGB coverage and 147% sRGB volume as specified for the MAG274QRF-QD. The KTC-H27T22 has a specified coverage of 92% DCI-P3 + 84% Adobe RGB and 131% sRGB volume, with the Techless review confirming that is more or less correct. That review also shows pursuit photos using the strobe backlight setting of the KTC-H27T22 and you can see KSF phosphor fringing. Which confirms it definitely doesn’t have a QD-LED backlight and really it’s more of a competitor to the MSI G273QF/QPF, which is also covered earlier in this thread. The vibrancy level with that sort of backlight isn’t up to the level of the other models you’re considering, if that’s something you were looking for. 🙂

[Temiah]

Hi there,

I’m looking for advice on a 27 1440p monitor and found this thread. Was wondering if I could ask for advice and recommendations and thoughts? I think I have narrowed my selection down to the following three monitors:

– Gigabyte M27Q-P (Not M27Q-X as it’s not avaliable in Australia unfortunately)
– MSI MAG274QRF-QD
– MSI MAG274QRX

I’m having a hard choice deciding between the three. The Gigabyte is cheaper then the others but do you think it’s worth the price for the latter two and how do you think it compares to them? Also between the MSI models, which one do you think is better, especially in terms of image quality for watching videos? I read a thread where you were now recommending the MSI MAG274QRF-QD due to firmware updates but I saw on RTings that its calibration is not quite accurate and only decent compared to the M27Q-P. How does it compare to the MSI MAG274QRX?

My usage is general use for reading, watching movies and youtube, with maybe 10 – 25% gaming on the side. Mainly play RPG games, have no intention of playing FPS games or shooters and would probably be targeting 100 – 120 fps. Will mainly be using it in moderately bright environment almost 100% of the time, unlikely to be playing in the dark. I will also not be doing content creation, so would like vibrancy and image to pop however would like skin tones to be natural and not ballon to red shades, which is why I was concerned about calibration out of the box for the MSI MAG274QRF-QD.

So all in all would like a good monitor I can use for gaming but which has great image quality that is vibrant but not oversaturated. I would like it to have contrast which is why I’m a bit hesitant on the M27Q-P, but the only good fit on the VA side would be the G7, which just has too many issues on QC and backlight bleeding for me to be comfortable buying.

Im torn on the three, especially between the MSI MAG274QRF-QD and the MSI MAG274QRX. In terms of pixel response times, the games I use it for should be fine with all 3? But as stated Ive heard that the colours pop on the MAG274QRF-QD but not sure how this compares to MAG274QRX in content and games, while the MAG274QRX has the benefit of being the M27Q-P but better (conclusion reached from hardware unboxed) and single overdrive mode.

If you could offer any insight that would be great!

[PCM2]

Hi Temiah,

As noted earlier in this thread and in this comparison thread which contrasts that model with the original M27Q, I don’t specifically recommend the M27Q-P. I simply think the relatively weak contrast is an unacceptable compromise given comparable products are available with superior contrast. That isn’t something any amount of calibration is going to fix, though if you only use the monitor in a well-lit room you may not find this so noticeable or problematic. None of these models offer amazing contrast, but I do still feel this difference is significant and noticeable depending on lighting. The LG Nano IPS panel it’s based on also has quite a harsh peak of energetic blue light at a relatively low wavelength compared to some competitors, so some find it problematic in terms of viewing comfort. That’s a very individual thing and most would not find it bothersome, however.

Given your uses and the fact you said you like a bit of extra vibrancy and pop, absolute image accuracy shouldn’t be a concern to you. None of these wide gamut monitors represent most standard content (designed for the sRGB colour space) accurately if you leave them using their untamed native gamut. If you want a bit of extra pop but don’t want skin to have overly strong red tones (for example), you might actually find the native gamut of the MAG274QRX quite appealing as it runs closest to Adobe RGB without as much extension in the red region of the gamut as the other options. As covered earlier in this thread (and this one dedicated to that model), the MAG274QRF-QD offers an Adobe RGB emulation mode that will also give that sort of look. If you leave it running its native gamut then it will certainly give a very punchy and vibrant look, but will provide rather heavy oversaturation in places. And that will include skin tones looking overly red (relevant reading on colour gamut).

The extra refresh rate of the ‘QRX’ is a nice bonus for games where you can achieve >165fps and even on the desktop gives a bit of an edge in ‘connected feel’ and reduced perceived blur which can be enjoyed. The pixel responsiveness is quite strong on both models and the ‘QRX’ has a single overdrive setting which works well throughout its entire VRR range. With the ‘QRF-QD’ the optimal mode depends on refresh rate (‘Fast’ for triple digits and ‘Normal’ for double digits, to give a broad generalisation). The screen surface is also a bit smoother (less grainy) on the ‘QRX’ vs. ‘QRF-QD’, but this isn’t something most will notice and neither model is bad in that respect. Given all of this the MAG274QRX may be the strongest contender, if it’s priced similarly in your region to the MAG274QRF-QD.

[Temiah]

Thanks so much on both your advice and quick response!

Thank you for letting me know about the M27Q-P, will definitely be excluding it from consideration. Now just to choose between the MSI models, leaning towards the MAG274QRX as you mentioned for the reasons above, which is less then $50 more compared to the MAG274QRF-QD.

I would probably just have to ask a few more questions to make my selection:

1. How well calibrated out of the box is the MAG274QRX?
2. In regards to punchy and vibrant image quality, I’m presuming the MAG274QRF-QD is better then the MAG27AQRX in their native gamut. How much better is it and would it be noticeable or is it only very slightly? And would you say if that tradeoff is worth some skin tone looking a bit red or would the skin tone look too red and be noticeable?
3. Also how would say the MAG274QRF-QD in Adobe RGB emulation mode looks compared to the MAG274QRX’s native gamut?

Thanks!

[PCM2]

The wide gamut will always throw off sRGB accuracy, as stated. The gamma calibration is a bit ‘off target’ on both models and some shades will be slightly brighter and some slightly dimmer – the deviations tend to be slightly lower there on the ‘QRX’ from the data I’ve seen but neither model shows extreme deviation from the ‘2.2’ curve and this can vary between units. Colour temperature also varies between units and as with most monitors you will likely want to make some adjustment to colour channels. So the calibration of either model is variable but both models have a perfectly respectable calibration for general-purpose usage and gaming and there are no real issues you should worry about in that respect. This shouldn’t be of concern for your uses, although be aware that if you’re running the ‘QRF-QD’ in one of its colour space emulation modes that will lock off the colour channel adjustments. If you use an Nvidia GPU you can use a GPU-level alternative method of achieving Adobe RGB emulation without such restrictions, should you wish.

The gamut on the ‘QRF-QD’ is significantly wider in the red region (or red to blue edge) in particular. It has a noticeable impact, one which you may or may not like. You can emulate a tighter colour space if you wish or use the full native gamut in all its glory if you prefer with that model. For the ‘QRX’ you’re basically looking at ~Adobe RGB or sRGB (without the strong DCI-P3 coverage of the ‘QRF-QD’). For reference this monitor has a similar colour gamut to the ‘QRF-QD’ (similar QD LED backlight solution) and this one to the ‘QRX’. See how the colour reproduction is described in the respective reviews, that will give you a good idea of what to expect from each.

P.S. I changed several instances of MAG27AQRX to the correct designation MAG274QRX in your post. 🙂

[EsaT]

MAG274QRX has rather average size gamut when using CIE1976 chromaticity diagram:
https://youtu.be/m40xDD7D1f8?t=591
(Rec.2020 is UHDTV standard colour space)

Though what’s unusual is that missing cover is in reds, because most panels (especially LGs) are focused on red extension emphasizing DCI-P3, instead of AdobeRGB with wider green (and cyan) coverage.

Effect of wide gamut depends heavily on content:
Any “Disneyland-processed” content with exaggerated and often (at least near) clipped colours would look bad. (without use of colour management)
While neutral looking made content would gain that punch/vividness.

[Temiah]

Oops haha didn’t realise I had misspelled the model name lol.

Thanks, it looks like the reds for skin tone on the MAG274QRX are not as overly saturated, though the greens might be a bit too neon for the lush green scenes. I do wonder how it fares in terms of blue in terms of ocean and sky as I do like that the benq-ex3210u reviews mentions the vibrancy of the blue skies in daylit scenes.

It looks like I’m going to pick the MAG274QRX once it’s back in stock in my retail store. I’ll see if I can also compare between the saturation and colours for image quality in store as well.

Thanks so much!

[Temiah]

I see, thanks for the advice EsaT.

I don’t know much about colour management, is there anything I should to do so that it doesn’t look bad in Disneyland-processed content as you mentioned?

[Author]

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