MSI MAG274QRF-QD sRGB emulation

Viewing 20 posts - 1 through 20 (of 33 total)

Buying a monitor? Please refer to this post before purchasing.


  • Author
    Posts
  • #62810
    Hanon

    Hello, I’ve purchased this amazing MSI monitor and I’m currently doing some testing. This is the best IPS monitor I have owned to date. It has a 8-frc bit panel with great visuals, minimal backlight bleed, great matte panel finish, insane response times, good adjustable stand… It has everything I ever wanted for a non FALD monitor. This monitor can do the following:

    – 100% sRGB coverage (170% gamut volume).
    – 97% aRGB coverage (114% gamut volume).
    – 98% DCI-P3 coverage (116% gamut volume).

    The only problem I see with the monitor is it doesn’t have an sRGB clamp profile in the OSD: I contacted MSI Spain to ask if they could add the sRGB clamp via software and they told me they would look into it and that usually, monitors that have more than 100% sRGB gamut volume have an sRGB clamp option. They also told me they would investigate it since I reported this monitor doesn’t have that option. In the meanwhile I use the monitor in it’s full gamut and it doesn’t really bother me, but I’d like to know if there was a way to limit the sRGB oversaturation (I don’t like atomic green when it’s supposed to be pastel green or just softer than radioactive). I downloaded HW Unboxed’s ICC profile from their Patreon but I don’t really know how to make displayCAL adjust it to limit extra gamut volume.

    I also wanted to add that Nvidia seems to have added a “color accuracy mode” option in their control panel, inside “adjust desktop color” tab or however it’s called in English. Not sure if this has to do with a digital sRGB clamp like option but people don’t seem to know what’s the feature for.

    Any suggestion is greatly appreciated. At the end, I might still keep the monitor even the oversaturated colors but I just wanted to know if there’s a solution for it.

    Hanon.

    #62812
    PCM2

    Hi Hanon,

    I’m glad you’re enjoying the MAG274QRF-QD overall. The only way to reliably display sRGB content within the sRGB colour space is:

    – Profile the monitor yourself. You can use somebody else’s profile, but for best results you’d do this with your own colorimeter or spectrophotometer as each individual unit is different. Whether profiling yourself or using somebody else’s profile, the gamut mapping of the profile is embedded but only accessible to ‘colour-aware’ (colour-managed) applications. So if you’re just browsing the desktop, observing some content on the internet (including YouTube videos and some other media content) or gaming will appear oversaturated. This is covered in our article on ICC profiles.

    – Use an sRGB emulation setting on the monitor or create hardware calibrate the monitor (requires an addressable LUT and suitable calibration hardware). This applies universally to all applications, which is why such a setting can be important. Neither option is available on this model and sRGB emulation settings can be imperfect anyway due to locked brightness and other controls.

    – Use AMD’s ‘Colour Temperature Control’ feature (disabled) in AMD Radeon software. As discussed in our reviews (e.g Acer XB323U) this is essentially a flexible sRGB emulation setting, you use this with any monitor settings you like. Having tested it myself, I couldn’t tell you exactly what “Colour accuracy mode” does in Nvidia Control Panel (clicking the ‘Override to reference mode’ checkbox). But as you’ll be able to confirm by using the setting yourself, it is not an sRGB emulation setting. I was quite excited when I heard about this setting, but immediately disappointed after testing it. ๐Ÿ˜‰

    It might be worth investing in a colorimeter with this model, if budget allows. To give you a better experience on colour-aware applications, which includes browsing the internet. Most (but not all) content there will have saturation appropriately reduced following such adjustments. Another issue that I’ve seen reported by a few users and was also raised in the Hardware Unboxed review of the MAG274QRF-QD is that the gamma is usually closer to ‘2.0’ than ‘2.2’. Correcting the gamma can actually improve saturation in some instances (not what you want), but it can also deepen some shades up so they appear less ‘bright and neon’. It can also make the visibility in dark areas more appropriate and reduce how obvious compression artifacts are on streamed content. MSI doesn’t offer any gamma modes or alternative means to correct this in the OSD, so you’d need to use a colorimeter to correct this. From what I’ve seen the gamma tracking varies a bit between units but is usually off the mark so it’s good to correct this properly in my view. Again, it might not be important to you but it’s something to consider.

    #62829
    Hanon

    Thank you for your reply. I’ll see what I do with the input you gave me. Do you know if it’s possible to access the service menu at all? I’d like to take a look to confirm the panel specs and other interesting stuff.

    #62831
    PCM2

    That isn’t something manufacturers like us to discuss I’m afraid. And I’m not sure of the exact combination on the MAG274QRF-QD anyway.

    #63011
    hachem28

    hi, I didn’t want to create a new thread so I’m going to piggyback off this one. Any thoughts on the non qd version of the MAG274QRF?

    #63013
    PCM2

    I have no feedback to give on the ‘non QD’ model. But it again lacks flexibility with gamma options and MSI have proven themselves quite poor at tuning gamma in a number of their models (including the MAG274QRF-QD) so it’s a fair assumption that the ‘non QD’ could suffer similar issues. This isn’t necessarily a deal-breaker and you may love the experience it offers, but it isn’t a model I would personally recommend.

    #63025
    hachem28

    yea I’ve read your other posts on the lack of gamma options, it’s a bummer. I actually did order the non qd version with free returns so I’ll see how I like it. Thanks ๐Ÿ™‚

    #63027
    PCM2

    Just remember, you might get a good unit or be happy with how things are calibrated anyway. Please feel free to share your thoughts on this thread when you get the monitor, I hope you get on with it. ๐Ÿ™‚

    #65606
    PCM2

    It appears that MSI has now added an sRGB emulation setting to the MAG274QRF-QD with a new firmware version, as detailed in this Reddit post. In the comments section the user who has tested this noted that the image is much less saturated, as you’d expect. Furthermore, brightness and colour channels are unlocked so can be adjusted.

    #65610
    M2077

    How does this new update change your opinion of the monitor, (if it does)? Always value your insight.

    The lack of gamma controls is still a problem, unfortunately.

    #65612
    PCM2

    My feelings are the same really. It’s nice that MSI added an sRGB emulation setting – and a reasonably flexible one – to the MAG274QRF-QD. And for some people that would’ve been the key issue for them, if they liked the monitor aside from the highly saturated colour output. But the gamma calibration remains an issue and I’m never comfortable recommending a model without gamma controls if some units sit ~2.0 average for gamma. At least if you have a colorimeter you could correct the gamma and also benefit from sRGB emulation for applications including games (where the gamut mapping from the profile wouldn’t apply, but gamma corrections still would).

    #65634
    NewEnglandNole

    Posting this here in case it helps others. I also have a monitor that does not offer an sRGB emulation mode and the oversaturation on Windows 10 desktop was annoying me. I came across a post on Reddit for an free open source tool that can clamp via software regardless of AMD or nVidia. It hooks into the Windows APIs to do so. It requires that you generate a 3D LUT file from an ICC profile (you can use DisplayCAL), so you need to have an ICC profile. The benefit of the 3D LUT is that it handles color and gamma mapping (as opposed to just gamma via DisplayCAL loader). The tool is called Dwm_LUT and can be found on GitHub. Hope this helps.

    #65637
    PCM2

    Thanks for sharing this, NewEnglandNole. I see this as something that’s certainly worth checking out if you’re an Nvidia (or potentially Intel) GPU user that doesn’t have a monitor with sRGB emulation or where it’s so inflexible you don’t want to use it. AMD GPU users have a convenient alternative (‘CTC = disabled’) integrated into the Radeon Software graphics drivers, as covered in our article. I’m still surprised Nvidia hasn’t integrated a similar feature into their drivers yet, it’s long overdue.

    For those interested, this page on the DisplayCal forums includes some discussion surrounding Dwm_LUT. Something to note is that it doesn’t work for exclusive fullscreen applications, so unfortunately gamers who wish to use Nvidia’s ‘G-SYNC Compatible Mode’ (which does not always work correctly outside of exclusive fullscreen) won’t be able to use it. Should be fine on the desktop and outside of exclusive fullscreen mode, however.

    #65726
    ache

    I buyed this wide gamut beast last week… and yes: MSI added sRGB, AdobeRGB and DCI-P3 profile into new firmware (015). It can be flashed via MSI Gaming OSD app. DCI-P3 gamut is sweetspot for me, colors are vivid but not super oversaturated like in native gamut… But the native gamut is still good for some games.

    I can highly recommend this monitor.

    #65728
    PCM2

    Thanks for confirming this, ache – and for sharing your positive feedback. It’s really neat that they added a DCI-P3 mode to the MAG274QRF-QD as a sort of intermediate between the native gamut and sRGB. As not everyone wants to go to the extreme of subdued sRGB levels of saturation or the full oversaturation of the native gamut.

    #65729
    ache

    Yes, Its very positive. I have only one complaint about the MAG274QRF-QD – bad uniformity of backlight – same like photo on Rtings review – noticeably color temperature change to edges and corners (looks like the blue LED leaking at edges of QD filter).

    But… the other features are great.
    – Fast response time without any overdrive artifacts (OD normal) @ full G-SYNC range. Even the first step OD (Fast) is ok, but Im very sensitive to undershots (darker shadows after lighter objects – like sun vs. sky) so this is perfect mode for me.
    – Amazing gamut and good calibration from factory. This is my first monitor where I dont need tune RGB channels for better balance.
    – Gamut clamp profiles (sRGB, AdobeRGB, P3) works perfectly without any f*ups like locked brightness (very common “feature”).
    – And at top of the cake: the design! There is no shiny LED at front! Status/power LED is hidden on bottom side. Perfect for night gaming.

    my verdict: almost perfect gaming monitor with some extra plus (exceptional gamut). Highly recommended.

    #65812
    thewind32

    Hi PCM, I’m looking to get a mag274qrf (non-qd) so I’ll post my question here.

    Nvidiaโ€™s โ€˜G-SYNC Compatible Modeโ€™ (which does not work correctly outside of exclusive fullscreen)

    Could you elaborate on what you said above? It would be my first time using G-Sync Compatible and I would like to enable it for both fullscreen and windowed application. I usually run games in fullscreen but there are some odd titles that have issues with alt-tab etc which I use borderless windowed. I’ve read that “actual” G-Sync have some issues for certain windowed apps. Do you mean to say G-Sync Compatible does not work on all windowed apps?

    Since I’m here, might as well also confirm whether my current monitor is faulty. I have been using an AOC AG271QG (thanks for your help when I was shopping back then!). Recently, it has started to show red vertical lines that extend fully from top to bottom, but only on the left half of the monitor. When I start the day, the monitor is fine, but the lines will randomly appear, regardless whether I’m gaming or not (possibly due to heat or duration in use?). However, when the issue does occur, the red lines are only visible on deep black areas (like shadows in game, dark sky, black scenes on youtube). For example, only the shadow potion will have the red lines, and everything else displays correctly. If I restart the PC, I even see it during the Windows loading screen. Restarting the PC doesn’t make the lines go away, but sometimes it would randomly go away by itself, and come back later.

    Monitor is connected to GPU via DP. I’ve tried switching to HDMI once when the problem occurred, red lines are still there. I then tried connecting the HDMI to my motherboard directly, red lines still there. Can I safely say that the fault lies with my monitor and nothing else?

    #65814
    PCM2

    I’m glad you brought this up as I really should’ve expanded on what I meant rather than causing alarm. It does work with some applications in ‘windowed’ mode. It’s just that it seems to work less consistently, with some applications suffering from additional stuttering (with the technology seeming to momentarily deactivate every now and then) and with others it not seeming to work at all. Compatibility has certainly got better over time and most games will work correctly with the technology, so don’t worry if you like to run some titles windowed – they will probably work fine.

    If you’re considering the MAG274QRF (non-QD) rather than the QD model (and either way in fact), I’d actually recommend considering the newer G273QF/QPF. It has a cut down feature set, for example lacks any useless RGB LEDs and any HDR support, which isn’t a huge loss in this case. But it offers similar performance and tends to be better calibrated in terms of gamma. It’s a model I’ve received some good positive feedback on as I’ve noted here. This includes from one individual who tested both models and decided to keep the G273QPF largely due to gamma calibration. His MAG274QRF was so far off in that respect it really messed up dark detail levels. That’s only 2 samples of course and each unit can differ, but gamma seems to be further off-base with the MAG in comparison. MSI should really include gamma settings in the OSD for this reason, and ideally be more careful with their gamma calibration in the first place.

    Just some food for thought on that other model. Really, you’ll likely very much enjoy whichever you go for. It should fill the hole your AG271QG left nicely. And only the ‘QPF’ (not QF) has the same adjustable stand as the MAG models. Also they don’t seem to have updated the firmware to include an sRGB emulation setting, whereas they have for the MAG models. So there’s a case to be made for either. ๐Ÿ™‚

    #65815
    thewind32

    Thanks for the reply. I came across a few listings of the G273QF but didn’t realise it was a newer model. Have not yet looked into that model deeply but I remember in comparisons between it and the MAG274QRF-QD, the MAG seemed to be preferred slightly more. I’m assuming the non-QD version is similar, just with less over-saturation (which to me is a good thing, and I suppose if sRGB emulation is used, the QD might not be of much benefit.

    My concern now is not knowing whether sRGB emulation will ever be added for the G273QF. I followed your settings for the AG271QG when I first got it, so I’m assuming both the MSI models will look over-saturated compared to what I’m used to. In that case, having sRGB emulation might be significant if I really cannot stand the colors. Also, on Rtings, their G273QF unit seemed to have poor black uniformity.

    Was pretty much set on the MAG but I’ll start looking more into the G273QF. I don’t need the QPF’s adjustable stand since I am using a VESA monitor arm. I will have to make a decision by tomorrow though because there are sales going on during 9/9 where I’m from. I can get them discounted for around 386 USD (G273QF) and 393 USD (MAG non-qd) after currency conversion. With the pricing in mind and barely any price difference, do you still lean towards the G273QF?

    #65817
    PCM2

    RTINGS will have marked down the G273QF because of things like ergonomics (advantage of ‘QPF’ variant and MAG models) and also just the feature set, including lack of HDR and USB ports. Dark uniformity varies between units, so comparing just 2 samples there is not particularly worthwhile. The user I was referring to who compared the two models and ended up keeping the G273QPF over the MAG274QRF actually had better uniformity on the G273QPF, but again that’s just a single data point and not worth putting much weight on. If you look at the gamma graphs on RTINGS you’ll see the deviations on the G273QPF are significantly lower than on the MAG274QRF-QD they reviewed. This is reflected by broader user feedback on both MAG models and is something I would weight much more heavily in my own reviews due to the significant impact that has on the image. You can correct gamma if you have a colorimeter or similar device.

    I agree with your thoughts surrounding the sRGB emulation or lack of that. But I’d add that most people find the gamut at this level (93% DCI-P3 specified) invites extra vibrancy and saturation. Yet not to an extreme and clearly overdone degree like on the MAG274QRF-QD using its native gamut. It’s a look many like or get quite used to, but it’s very subjective. Emulation modes for other colour spaces are always a welcome flexibility. I’d still edge towards the G273QPF because of its likely superior gamma handling, it can’t be understated how important that is if you don’t have access to a calibration device. But that’s just how I’d weight things and I can see the appeal of either option.

Viewing 20 posts - 1 through 20 (of 33 total)
  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.