The rise of Mini LED and QD-OLED

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Buying a monitor? Please refer to this post before purchasing.


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  • #67777
    EsaT

      Sure is quiet in news without any new information from Acer for nearly two months.
      Let’s hope AUO panel/monitor hasn’t been delayed.

      #67779
      PCM2

        Yes indeed. A delay wouldn’t surprise me with the X32 or other models like the X32 FP. It looks like the X32 might actually be coming out first at this rate, at least based on the fact it has just recently passed CCC certification in China (the X32 FP hasn’t). This usually occurs a few to several months prior to release, though occasionally there’s less of a lag period.

        #67872
        EsaT

          Looks like there’s “rainshower on Samsung’s QD-OLED sky”:
          https://www.thefpsreview.com/2022/03/18/color-fringing-detected-in-alienware-aw3423dw-samsung-qd-oled-monitors/

          I wonder if there’s some issue in making smaller QD pattern to fit them into normal RGB row pattern instead of this triangular pattern, or why Samsung did Samsung put them into this pattern…
          I mean LG manages to put OLEDs themselves into normal row with addition of white subpixel.

          #67874
          PCM2

            No monitor is perfect and the AW3423DW would be no exception. I have spoken extensively to owners of the M27Q and other models with BGR subpixel layouts and associated issues with ‘fringing’ and suchlike. So a few points with this and the Alienware in mind:

            – The displaced green subpixel of the AW3423DW does cause some issues with text and fine edge clarity, particularly ‘noticeable’ for high contrast situations such as lighter text against a darker background. Ideally the subpixel layout would be uniform or ‘normal’ RGB, not sure of the technical reason why this subpixel layout was used.

            – Issues like this are not noticed by the majority, even on the desktop. And with dynamic environments in games or movies, it’s honestly quite nit-picky to even mention it. And of those noticing such issues, most will not find them bothersome enough to ruin their enjoyment of other aspects of the monitor. I know some people have reported being perfectly happy with text representation on the Alienware even though they stare at text as their day job (programmers).

            – A minority will notice this issue and will find it bothersome. But the number of people thinking they will find this to be an issue is far greater than the number who will actually have an issue with it. So people certainly shouldn’t let this put them off giving the monitor a try.

            – Images and videos are very misleading and a poor way of assessing such things. The fringe is exaggerated massively, in practice it is only a single pixel thick. The contrast, saturation and defocusing of various elements in images and videos can present things in an undesireable way that’s not noticed by eye. And they’re usually taken at distances which are most closer than most will sit from the monitor. I had to say repeatedly in relevant sections of my reviews of the M27Q and FI27Q-X that this was the case. When I review the AW3423DW I don’t intend to take as many images showing these ‘issues’ because they simply put people off for no good reason.

            #67877
            EsaT

              Because of being vertically standard row formation, BGR layout’s issue shows only in vertical lines.
              Fringing from this appears especially in all horizontal lines/edges, of which there are plenty in non-gaming/movies watching uses.
              So far more things to spot it in.

              High pixel density would have made it less noticeable, but for some inexlicable reason Samsung didn’t go for 3840×2160.
              That would have certainly made panel smashing hit for many professional users, besides enthusiast/high end home users.
              Would have been myself willing to compromise on this subpixel layout to finally get back to CRT’s image quality level.

              I’ve got zero trust to completely unknown/barely known people’s judgment abilities.
              (why would programmer use 3440×1440 instead of 3840×2160?)
              Plenty of people used insane amount of flickering 60Hz CRTs and with bottle bottom’s geometry…
              Same for no position from which whole image would have vertically same brightness/colours/gamma Twisted Nematics garbages…
              Downgrading 24″ monitors from 1920×1200 to 1920×1080… or 2560×1600 replaced by 2560×1440…
              So nothing can be concluded from random average users, unless it’s that sh*t is good because fashion&marketing told so…

              #67879
              PCM2

                Either way, it remains subjective. As you haven’t seen the AW3423DW yourself (neither have I, yet), it would be imprudent to discount the thoughts of “random users”. In time the weight of evidence or impressions from those “random users” will become clear. I’ve actually received direct feedback from an individual in China who has a very keen eye for these things and has been using the monitor for several weeks now. He doesn’t find the issue bothersome at all and that surprised him. He actually does find the BGR related fringing issues bothersome, though in his case it’s because he views a lot of PDFs where the problem is most pronounced due to forced RGB subpixel optimisation. The photos showing the issues were not out in the wild when he made the purchase, but he has viewed them and has simply said in no uncertain terms they are ridiculous and misleading. Since I feel the same way about BGR related issues being blown out of proportion and know first hand photos are very misleading there, I value his input here even if to some he may be a “random user”.

                As for programming I generally agree that if it’s the sole use for a monitor the ‘4K’ UHD resolution makes sense. Though some programmers have multiple windows open side by side (example) and find the dimensions and resolution of a 34″ 3440 x 1440 UltraWide well-suited to them. If they use the monitor for other tasks as well (and in the now popular “work from home” environment it isn’t unusual to have a single monitor for both work and play), they may also find the format and the screen in general endearing. I’ve engaged with plenty of programmers over the years who are very happy with such models for a programming-biased mixed workflow actually, so it’s not as unusual as you might think.

                #67894
                odinmarks1988

                  I am actually excited to see these new mini led monitor as I am planning to get it to use it for playing with PS5 console and PC games. Thinking of the X32 FP but not sure if I should wait for the Asus PG32UQXE instead?

                  #67896
                  PCM2

                    The PG32UQXE will certainly come at a premium compared to the X32 FP, due to the addition of the G-SYNC module. Actual G-SYNC from a module can be nice if you’re sensitive to overshoot and often find your content dipping in frame rate. And it comes with some other benefits compared to Adaptive-Sync. Also, it remains to be seen how well the FALD backlight can be controlled with a ‘traditional scaler’ rather than a carefully tuned G-SYNC module – some non-G-SYNC Mini LED (FALD) models are notably poor in this respect, but it’s a problem the likes of AUO and their hardware partners are working very hard to address. Whether it will be worth the potentially significant price premium remains to be seen, you’d need to at least wait for reviews or user feedback on the X32 FP before deciding whether it’s a monitor for you. And if not, whether you feel its shortcomings could be addressed by a G-SYNC Ultimate alternative like the PG32UQXE (or X32, if it ends up coming with HDMI 2.1).

                    #67918
                    EsaT

                      With PS5 lacking DSC you would want monitor to have HDMI 2.1.
                      There were FreeSync monitors with HDMI 2.1 already year ago, so pretty good certainty that also Acer X32 FP has HDMI 2.1.

                      Again Nvidia’s proprietary sync module hasn’t yet ever had support for HDMI 2.1.
                      But not for the lack of time because final HDMI 2.1 specification is already 4½ years old. (+as HDMI Forum member Nvidia had access to data in standard’s design stage)
                      And further with HDMI LA (licensing authority) turning to scammer and basically rebranding HDMI 2 to 2.1 would be very skeptical about PG32UQXE’s having actual HDMI 2.1 support.

                      And neither does expensive price tag mean FALD control is good.
                      Insanely expensive PG32UQX certainly doesn’t do that good job at controlling backlight to maximize image quality. Mod edit: removed links to absurdly overexposed videos – far more complete and balanced look at the local dimming capabilities in our review. You’re spot on that the algorithm is important and in this case too aggressive with its brightening in places, but not to the extent suggested in those extremely misleading videos.

                      FALD simply shouldn’t boost brightness for small high contrast spots.
                      Really whole brightness boost should have (adjustable) hard cap to actually improve LCD’s image in darker surrounding.
                      Real problem of all non-emissive pixel techs has always been lack of contrast/good black and not too low brightness.
                      Marketroids pushing for more nits should be tied to chairs meters away from electric arc furnace to give them all the nits they want!

                      #67924
                      PCM2

                        The X32 FP has always had HDMI 2.1 specified and this was confirmed in a press release this year from CES, so that wasn’t ever doubted. For the X32, this hasn’t been confirmed. Though given how heavily it’s delayed and what is specified for the PG32UQXE it may end up having it. I’d be extremely surprised if ASUS is misleading in its specification for HDMI 2.1 here – that would be an extremely dangerous line for them to tread and they know it.

                        The PG32UQX could indeed do with some tweaking of its local dimming algorithm to favour stronger dimming vs. high brightness in some cases. I agree that smaller areas of bright shade surrounded by darkness should not cause the dimming zones to pulse up too aggressively. I’d also like to see them get rid of the ‘inverse halos’ that can be seen for some medium content and transitions. The zones are at least suitably responsive, the dimming is implemented in a flicker-free fashion and in most scenes it works as you’d expect with haloing that’s relatively subtle if at all noticeable. The experience is very dynamic and to most people will be enjoyable, whereas that’s not always the case with the Adaptive-Sync alternatives showcased so far. With the PG32UQX the benefits of the FALD backlight generally outweigh the negatives, whereas with some of the Adaptive-Sync solutions it’s something you’ll usually want to avoid using because it’s so poorly implemented. I’m sure this won’t be an issue with appropriate scalers and tuning in place, however.

                        #67994
                        PCM2

                          A relevant addition to this thread is the AOC PD32M. This is a 32″ ‘4K’ UHD model with 144Hz refresh rate, VESA DisplayHDR 1400 support and Mini LED backlight. HDMI 2.1 support is included. Current details are provided courtesy of Porsche Design who are a bit light on details and spend a lot of the product page talking about the ‘inspired design’ of the screen rather than key specifications. Will fill in the gaps in the article when I can. Initial price is $1800 USD, so not cheap but still significantly cheaper than the G-SYNC Ultimate offerings.

                          #67997
                          EsaT

                            Well, Acer has put out standard marketing video for X32 FP, so maybe actual release is little closer…

                            #68000
                            PCM2

                              Yes indeed! Included below for those interested.

                              #68005
                              EsaT

                                Threw email to Acer’s support in Finland.
                                Let’s see if they now know more than month ago.

                                Have to wonder what panel that AOC is going to have considering new panels are 160Hz and neither does that HDR1400 fit to panel in coming Acer/Asus models.
                                Anyway external design looks even more garbage than Acer.

                                #68043
                                PCM2

                                  Have updated the PD32M news piece with new information. Appears to be using an Innolux AAS panel with QD LED backlight.

                                  #68179
                                  odinmarks1988

                                    Wonder what happened to Acer X32 FP, seems like there is so far no review of the Acer X32 FP up till now.

                                    #68181
                                    PCM2

                                      Due to supply chain disruption quite a few models using brand new monitor panels (such as the X32 FP and its AUO M320QAN02.8) have been delayed.

                                      #68185
                                      EsaT

                                        Great, why can’t those disruptions happen to already here yet another 60Hz monitor…
                                        We’ve got enough of them already.

                                        #68212
                                        PCM2

                                          New thread formed discussing some key points from a video review of the Samsung S32BG850 (Odyssey Neo G8).

                                          #68213
                                          dante21

                                            When will these technologies (on monitors) will come down to smaller sizes and resolutions at reasonable prices?

                                            a 24″ 1080p OLED or QD-OLED for around 400€ would be very appealing to many

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