[PCM2]

Hi bart393,

I have moved your post to this thread as it addresses your core question – and that is how AMVA+ and AH-IPS compare. As pointed out in this thread and our reviews, the superior colour consistency of ‘IPS’ is just as relevant from a normal viewing angle as it is from ‘off centre’ viewing angles. Responsiveness is also quite different in the real world between these – again refer to this thread and our reviews rather than the specified response times which are extremely misleading.

After deciding which panel type you prefer I’d also recommend typing in some of those model numbers into the forum search box (top right) for some thoughts on the specific models and how they compare to others.

[bart393]

Hi, thx 4 reply but:

this tread is a praise for amva+ and do not speak enought about ips to make a comparision…
response time are never discuss in this thread.. and it speaks for an 80% of 24″

but my question still not answered:

Why to choose an ips panel ? viewing angle is not a problem 4 me
I’m forgetting something ??? ( I think yes )

_________________________

about searching in forum:

Whilst I certainly see the merits of AMVA+ models such as the Iiyama XB2783HSU-B1, which is why I recommended 2 similar models from BenQ already (that are available in North America where Jaraghan is from), it isn’t true at all that they beat the Samsung models in nearly every field.

– Pixel responsiveness is considerably slower during some transitions, particularly between contrasting shades and dark and very dark shades. Games with lots of dark scenes or bright contrasting scenes are greeted by a somewhat smeary trailing due to some pixel responses being 20-40ms. If you only do a limited analysis on this as PRAD do you miss these slow transitions out, which is why we don’t mislead people in the same way. TFT Central’s analysis on that sort of thing is much better as is our subjective testing.

– Colour consistency and apparent shade variety is superior on the AD-PLS models. Again, if you’re just looking at readings from a colorimeter in the centre of the screen you might not appreciate this. But even AMVA+ panels suffer from a degree of gamma shift and shade change depending on where on the screen the shade is displayed. This negatively affects subtle shade variety in games.

I know that pls panel of samsung that i’ve reportes is faster than illyiama although spec sais…
but not for 20-40ms ….. how u get this timing ?
So u’re saying that best world monitor reviewers are misleading people ? ( PRAD )
O___O
tft central never review that monitor !
overclockers.ru –> yes, but never noticed about a so slow responsiveness !!!

i’m afraid from 20/40 ms!!!!!!!!

french drink too many wine & pastis
but 4rd best monitor in 27″ for 20/40ms of response time is too crazy even for them!!

How u measured this ? have u reset chronometer before ?
…….. i’m a bit puzzled !

ps:

http://www.lesnumeriques.com/moniteur-ecran-lcd/iiyama-xb2783hsu-p19573/test.html

worst responsiveness that i found on web : 11ms

[bart393]

prad worst 16ms for iiyama

[PCM2]

Well it seems you’ve answered your own question, or at least the information that you quoted did (regarding responsiveness). The analysis of all of the websites you have listed, aside from TFT Central, provides misleading data when it comes to analysing VA panel responsiveness. Unlike other panel types there is absolutely massive deviation in response time depending on the exact grey values involved in the transition. PRAD and others simply give averages or numbers for specific individual pixel transitions. If you want reliable data then you should instead refer to TFT Central’s recent reviews – if you trust not to accept our excellent subjective analysis, of course.

Take their review of the GW2760HS, which is quite standard for a modern AMVA+ panel in the way of responsiveness. It has an average grey to grey response time in its optimal setting (‘AMA High’) of 11.2ms, which is quite in line with what other sites report as it is an average. But if you look at the slowest transition you’ll see it occurs at 33.8ms (0-50 which is black to dark grey shades). There are some other transitions which occur at around 17-18ms as well. The characteristic ‘smeary’ trailing or at least more pronounced trailing that this produces in practice is explained very well in our reviews (including of the GW2760HS). Again, this behaviour is typical for even fast modern AMVA+ panels and is not unique to this monitor at all. The Iiyama exhibits exactly the same behaviour.

I feel that the key difference between IPS and AMVA+ has been summarised quite appropriately in this thread, specifically;

“When I refer to ‘colour consistency’ this is basically how a given shade appears at various points of the screen. All else being equal IPS models are very consistent which brings out the best ‘subtle shade variety’, allowing shades to remain very distinct and consistent regardless of their on-screen position. These new AMVA+ panels suffer from a bit of ‘gamma shift’ which causes the shades to appear slightly different towards the edges of the screen in particular – it is worth referring to the relevant sections of our VA reviews for further analysis on this. Perhaps compare to some of our recent IPS/PLS reviews yourself to get a feel for how these differences manifest themselves.”

Again, I would recommend you read the relevant sections of some of our reviews for a much more detailed comparison. These differences aren’t picked up by measurement instruments and are completely missed by the purely objective process used by most reviewers. That’s just one reason I spend so much time and effort going into detailed subjective analysis in my reviews. Short of seeing the monitors yourself in person, that’s the best impression you’ll get of what the image actually looks like. The EW2740L or BL3200PT reviews are good starting points as they draw comparisons with IPS-type panels. Pay particular attention to the observations in Lagom and Futurama: Into the Wild Green Yonder.

[bart393]

oook now is clearer !
and i read the review of GW2760HS that u reported { because it have the same OLD panel of xb2783hsu}

and I add some point on ips/pls type panel But not enought to change my opinion {
I found iiyama @209€ and… there are too many reason to not say no }

I’ll take it, fully conscius by the pros & cons ( even thanks to you ) of my choice.

[PCM2]

This characteristic isn’t changed by the newest panel revisions. The EW2740L also uses the new revision.

But as long as you’re aware of the pros and cons and have realistic expectations you should be happy. I definitely think VA panels have to be seen first hand. Everyone should give them a chance. 🙂

[bart393]

and if it is not good enought , in 30 days –> gogo ips =)

[GMTT]

Trying to buy a new monitor and I’m a bit overwhelmed. Here are some things I know I want:

Glossy screen
Accurate color
good response time
about 24 inches minimum screen size
$200 – $400 price range

some overclock potential

Mostly for gaming and watching films. I’ve read most of the articles and many topics on this site as well as some others. IPS or IPS-like looks like the way to go but I’m open to suggestions, it seems some people like the VA panels. It would be nice if the screen could pivot to portrait mode.

I currently have a BenQ G2400WD, it’s 16:10 1920 x 1200. I’m torn between moving down to a 1080 or up to a 1440. I plan to buy an Nvidia GTX 970 soon.

I would also like to buy a colorimeter. I would use it to calibrate my new monitor as well as a plasma television. I’m wondering if it’s possible to use the same hardware for both. I’m also wondering if it’s worth it to buy one as I’m not a professional photographer. The ones I’ve looked at so far range in price by quite a bit. The Spyder 4 Express, Spyder 4 Pro, Colormunki and i1Display Pro. Any suggestions there?

Really like the site, it’s obvious a lot of care and work goes into it which I appreciate.

[PCM2]

Hi GMTT and welcome,

I’ve merged your thread with this one as it seems to be an appropriate topic. You’ve probably been through this thread before, but if not it’s definitely worth sifting through.

The range of glossy displays is shockingly poor at the moment – in fact the only glossy VA panel I can think of is the S2440L. Screen surface aside, if you’re after good response times and were interested in overclocking the monitor a bit then I don’t really think VA models are for you. As highlighted in this thread there are certain pixel transitions that even the fastest VA panels are just not able to handle quickly, giving an unavoidable ‘trailing’ or even ‘smearing’ in some instances.

If colour accuracy is also high on the agenda then even the newest AMVA+ technology (enhanced colour consistency and viewing angles compared to older VA tech.) isn’t as good as IPS-type technology. There is a definite gamma shift which gives a certain inconsistency to shades – they generally appear lighter towards the flanks of the screen, so they can’t be considered ‘accurate’ aside from in the central region. That isn’t something a colorimeter can fix, unfortunately. I think the Spyder4 Pro, Colormunki and i1 Display Pro are all excellent calibration tools. I find the Spyder more user-friendly and I like its reporting functionality, but it is not good at reporting contrast and it seems to be a bit more variable compared to the i1 Display Pro or Colormunki. I have a ‘good unit’ which I use for reviewing, but I did have to send my first Spyder4Elite back as it didn’t seem to measure white point well at all.

As for the choices within your price range and according to your preferences, I’m actually rather fond of the Dell S2415H that I recently reviewed. It’s one of relatively few monitors with a glossy screen and it ticks a lot of your boxes. The only downside I can see at the moment is that it isn’t available from Amazon at the moment, it’s up as a ‘pre-order’ of sorts.

And it’s nice to see the site appreciated. It is a lot of work, but worth it I feel.

[GMTT]

I was surprised to find a Dell S2415H on sale at a local electronics store, not something I expected to find where I live. I went out and picked one up and I’m using it now. It’s a nice monitor, I like it so far.

However now that I have it I might return it and get a 27 inch 1440. I do like it but it is small, and a step down resolution from my old one. I’ll give it a few days though as it is a nice picture and the price was good.

Games seem too dark to me but it may be due to the HDMI/Nvidia thing, I’ll double check some settings and get back after I’ve used it a few days.

Since I didn’t buy from Amazon I would like to donate something to the site as it’s been very helpful. I think someone else did the same?

Thanks for the help so far, if you have any 1440 monitor suggestions let me know.

[PCM2]

That would surprise me as well! I really wish there was something like a larger, higher resolution version of the S2415H. Unfortunately there aren’t any glossy models from mainstream manufacturers with 2560 x 1440 resolutions. You may find you get on quite well with the very light matte surfaces commonly found on the 2560 x 1440 models, however. Some users actually refer to these surfaces as ‘semi-glossy’ due to the much cleaner look they give to the image compared to regular matte surfaces. One of the cheaper (and actually better) models available is the AOC q2770Pqu, although it does still go a bit beyond your budget.

[mass85]

Hi

I’ve just bought Dell U2414H after reading so many positive review and I am pretty disappointed with its black depth. It stands next to almost 10 years old Belinea B 10 19 15 (MVA) and difference in black level and colours vividness is significant. Also monitor I use at work has much better black, it’s Iiyama XB2472HD. However its motion blur is awful, while Belinea stays sharp.

So I’ve realized that I should buy VA monitor instead of IPS. Which one would be good for games and office? These are some important things to me:
– black depth with a good grey scale
– it shouldn’t be too light, as that makes my eyes tired very fast. All my monitors are set to max 30% of brightness (according to some tests the Dell has 102.25cd/m2 of luminance at 30% of brightness, that would be a maximum for me)
– responsiveness
– matt screen
– height adjustment would be a nice feature
– 24″, eventually I could go for 27″

I would like to spend $300-$400.

I’ve been recommended Samsung S24C750PS, but I can’t find any good tests online to see if it matches my criteria. I’ve heard that BenQ BL2410PT is good, but it’s a bit slow and has PWM…

What do you guys think?

[PCM2]

Hi mass85 and welcome!

The BenQ EW2740L really sets the benchmark for overall image performance, price, features and viewing comfort in my opinion. It’s why it’s featured as a recommended monitor. I haven’t used the 24″ version (EW2440L) myself, but a close colleague has and really liked it once he tweaked it a little bit (lowered brightness, shifted gamma mode I think – set up much like our EW2740L in the review really). User feedback for that model is also largely positive.

From what I’ve seen and understand the 24″ versions (from Samsung, BenQ and others) have a ‘more matte’ screen surface (slightly less light – a little grainier – quite similar to the U2414H which I assume you found fine) and also a slightly more restrictive colour gamut. The contrast performance and overall image performance is otherwise similar.

To throw in a wildcard (it’s again 27″) I’ve got a close eye on the gently curved Samsung S27D590C as well. They haven’t got any review samples just at the moment but I saw it at IFA and quite liked it (although the demonstration there was extremely limited). It’s also getting some really positive feedback over on Amazon.

[mass85]

I didn’t carefully verify that my NVidia GTX 660TI displays full range of RGB on Dell U2414H. So I realized that it doesn’t and fixed it using this tool. Unfortunately this workaround makes Need For Speed Rivals crash at start, while in Watchdogs it seems to work fine. Is the limited colour range a characteristic of NVidia and my monitor connection or it is a problem for every possible monitor working with NVidia?

Now the Dell has similar black depth and nice colors as my old Belinea. Both seem to have the same blur when scrolling black text on white background (pretty small blur) and when slowly driving from left to right in Need For Speed Rivals (this time blur is really significant, however I can accept it). However Dell has much better luminance uniformity, perhaps also colour accuracy and is able to show a bit more very dark details (a little smaller black crush).

I am a bit puzzled now and not so sure I should go for some modern VA. I would really appreciate better level of black, but this cannot sacrifice acceptable blur level and good visibility of dark details.

You recommend EW2740L, but not everyone appreciates it. How would you comment on “poor gamma correction”?

[PCM2]

Firstly, I have no idea why correcting the colour signal would cause a game to crash. Have you verified that when you toggle the tool onto ‘Limited Range’ again (and restart the PC as required), the crashes stop? And when you change it back and restart they reappear? There are alternative methods which can be used as discussed in this article.

Secondly, I have explained why the Digital Versus (so-called) review should be taken with a tablespoon of salt previously. So disregard it. I’d highly recommend reading through that thread as it would save me repeating anything else I could possibly say to sway you either way on the EW2740L. It’s something you really have to see for yourself, short of that reading our review and understanding the implications of its responsiveness and colour performance is the best that can be done.

But it’s great to here having the correct signal improved the experience. Still a bit miffed about Need for Speed. And out of curiosity, what frame rate are you getting on that game?

[mass85]

The crashes stopped after reverting to limited range. Then I tried YCbCr444 mode and that caused crashes only in 64bit mode of game (32bit worked well). Then when I switched back to RGB and set the full range, rebooted, game run well in both 32 and 64 bits… So it is a bit weird and is hard to isolate the problem.

NFS Rivals is quite famous due to limitation of frame rate to 30fps. I don’t know how to measure rate (I can’t see any option wrt this), but I think I get maximum as changing quality from ultra to low does not affect performance and does not affect the blur. I get very similar blur when driving in Battlefield 4, where performance test told me I get 60fps.

[PCM2]

The 60Hz refresh rate is the limiting factor with the motion blur you’re observing, although the 30fps of NFS Rivals would be an absolute nightmare for sensitive users. I suspect you’ll find AMVA+ fine from a responsiveness perspective, but you’ll have to see for yourself.

[mass85]

Why do you think that frame rate affects blur level of monitor? To me it only affects how animation is smooth. If you had an ideal monitor with response time 0ms, then you shouldn’t see any blur even at 10fps, you would only suffer from lack of smoothness (quickly moving elements would i.e. move by 2 pixels between frames instead of 1 pixel for 20fps), but each individual frame would be 100% sharp (assuming there is no blur effect of the displayed content – I switched the blur effect in NFS).

[PCM2]

The most significant contributor to motion blur is the movement of your own eyes, which is significantly affected by refresh rate and accompanying frame rate. Our responsiveness article is essential reading if you want to understand why refresh rate (and accompanying frame rate) affects the level of motion blur of a monitor. Comparing 30Hz to 60Hz, though, you generally see things looking ‘less smooth’ (more jittery – poorer animation as you describe) and your interaction with the game world may feel relatively choppy. It is not really as obvious on racing games as on FPS titles. If you compare a 60Hz monitor running 60fps to a 120Hz monitor running 120fps and are sensitive enough to motion blur, the difference is profound.

[mass85]

I would like to straighten mistake I made in my first post in this thread – I use Iiyama X2472HD at work, not XB2482HD. I don’t want to confuse anyone with my opinion, I have no idea how responsive XB2482HD is. X2472HD is VERY blurry, smooth scrolling of black text on white background in Firefox causes a horrible blur and tests that you can find on Internet will only confirm my opinion.

I will definitely read your responsivenes article.

[Author]

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