December 10, 2013 at 1:26 am #26577
after reading many reviews from various sides such as tft.central, prad.de and of course this very site i found myself completely stuck in the decision making.
I really hope you can help me here with some points which I have missed and with personal experience.
Besides I did open a new topic, because i believe the “new ips monitor advice” thread would become a little too confused, of course if you hold another opinion feel free to merge them.
The models I am currently taking into consideration are:
Aoc i2369vm ( seems like a nobrainer but its hardly available in germany at the moment… )
IPS235P ( very good price point like the aoc but the reviews differ too much… )
Dell P2414H ( from other Forum posts and the review this one managed it into the list )
Dell U2414H ( no information on this one yet, how does it compare to the P2414H? )
Eizo FS2333 ( prad.de … insane ratings / actually i wanted to go with this before i came across this site 😀 )
Asus PB248Q ( prad.de … much like the eizo insane ratings but I didnt find information elsewhere and since its 16:10 I am not too sure about it )
Asus VN279QLB ( the third monitor with sick ratings on prad.de… but I dont know if 1920:1080 is enough for the size )
BenQ GW2760HS (this was mentioned in alot of forums , same problem here its 27″ with 1920:1080)
There is one other thing bugging me and that is why so many websites only recommend the high end TN models like XL2420T etc when the response timings for the ips panel monitors should be good enough for gaming. I had the opinion that the 144hz and super low response time only give a slight advantage in the FPS genre.
Id like to add that I will use the monitor mainly for RTS / RPG gaming and watching movies in HQ / streaming. ( my current monitor is a LG W2361V )
My hardware should be good enough to handle this with a HD 7950 graphics card which might be replaced next year.
Im sitting around (70+-10)cm away from the monitor.
The price range would be anything up to 330 euro, but of course im interested the most in bang for buck 😀
HopEDecember 10, 2013 at 3:35 pm #26582
The video below explores this comparison in some detail, with the text below it giving further explanation:
Hi HopE and welcome!
I don’t like overlapping topics which is why you see a lot of topics fused together. Since you are considering both VA and IPS/PLS models I feel there is a bit of a different slant on this thread so I’m happy for it to stand on its own.
The first thing to really decide is whether you want to go down the IPS/PLS- or VA route, which is tricky I know. These new VA models (so-called ‘AMVA+) such as the ASUS and BenQ ones you’re looking at provide colour gamuts that are quite generous and comparable (better in some cases) than their IPS counterparts. They also offered improved viewing angle performance which translates to improved colour consistency. When I refer to ‘colour consistency’ this is basically how a given shade appears at various points of the screen. All else being equal IPS models are very consistent which brings out the best ‘subtle shade variety’, allowing shades to remain very distinct and consistent regardless of their on-screen position. These new AMVA+ panels suffer from a bit of ‘gamma shift’ which causes the shades to appear slightly different towards the edges of the screen in particular – it is worth referring to the relevant sections of our VA reviews for further analysis on this. Perhaps compare to some of our recent IPS/PLS reviews yourself to get a feel for how these differences manifest themselves.
For ‘colour critical’ work this consistency makes all the difference as it prevents VA models from ever displaying shades with the same accuracy as IPS. A colorimeter might tell you otherwise, but you have to appreciate that differences exist beyond this little central point of the screen. For gaming and general purpose I feel these AMVA+ panels offer a rich and rewarding experience with pleasing variety and richness to colours. They also offer very strong contrast which helps make blacks deep and inky and brings out lighter highlights really well. Furthermore they don’t suffer from ‘IPS glow’ which some users really dislike. It is definitely worth carefully reading our recent review of the BenQ EW2740L (which I would also add to your ‘list’) because it has the most detailed look at these VA advantages of any of our reviews. There is also good analysis of the disadvantages of VA, namely responsiveness.
If you’re sitting 60-80cm away from the screen I honestly don’t think you’ll have a problem with a 27″ monitor. The pixel pitch obviously isn’t as tight as on a 23-24″ model with the same resolution but the pixels are still what you’d consider ‘tiny’. I’ve used such models side-by-side with 23-24″ ones on countless occasions from the sort of viewing distance you’re talking about and the difference is not something I’d worry about. Everybody has their preferences here and I appreciate that, but I feel the issue is hugely blown out of proportion by many internet users. Most of whom probably haven’t actually used a 27″ Full HD monitor anyway.
As I hope you can appreciate from reviews of 144Hz monitors like the BenQ XL2411T there really is a smoothness benefit to be had from the higher refresh rate. You really have to be running the game at a high frame rate as well (ideally 144fps) to truly appreciate this, but the game looks and feels so much smoother and you feel more ‘connected’ to the action. Having said that you do have to make sacrifices when it comes to image quality when considering these 144Hz monitors and to be honest not everybody finds the difference between 60Hz and 144Hz as impressive. It is all down to individual sensitivities and all I’ll say is those that are happy to game at 60Hz are the lucky ones – given your budget, hardware and everything you’ve said I reckon you should stick to 60Hz as intended. A lot of the models you’re looking at can actually be overclocked slightly, say to 72Hz with relative ease. This isn’t something we can officially support in reviews which is why it isn’t mentioned specifically, but it is a possibility should you want to experience a slightly higher refresh rate without image quality compromise or extra cost. With AMD GPUs you use a tool called ToastyX’s CRU to set a custom resolution with a higher refresh rate (say 72Hz) and on an Nvidia GPU you do the same by setting a custom resolution in the Nvidia control panel.
Now we’ve got the broad comparisons out of the way I will try to whittle down your list a bit.
– The LG IPS235L has worse colour setup and inferior responsiveness (i.e. worse ‘pixel overdrive’ with more inverse ghosting) compared to the AOC i2369Vm which is why you don’t see that monitor recommended here. LG have improved this with their more recent 23EA63V but I still feel the AOC is a better buy.
– The Dell P2414H is a lovely monitor and one I would strongly recommend if going down the IPS or PLS route. The responsiveness is actually a bit better on a technical level than the AOC in that there is less ‘inverse ghosting’ (even if the AOC is set to its optimal overdrive setting). Most users don’t notice the inverse ghosting on the AOC and obviously there is a big price difference which is noticed more easily. You do get a slightly larger screen (23.8″) on the Dell, fully adjustable stand and flicker free backlight though.
– The U2414H is a model we’ll be testing as soon as we can. Dell don’t have any review samples currently. I expect it to be similar to the P2414H with different looks, a tighter factory calibration and extra ports. Further analysis on this thread.
– The FS2333 is a good monitor, but you’re paying not for superior performance but for some extra features and the ‘EIZO’ name. Some further thoughts on this post and further down that page.
– The PB248Q is a decent enough monitor, but not the best in class for gaming. That accolade goes to the BenQ BL2411PT which features a superior pixel overdrive solution. The PB248Q gives quite strong inverse ghosting under its default ‘TraceFree 60’ setting. You can of course lower the TraceFree, 20 will give you no obvious overshoot – but pixel responses are slowed down considerably here and much more than on some other ASUS IPS monitors with similar TraceFree solutions including the VS24AH. The BenQ’s ‘AMA High’ is much better implemented in my opinion. I also don’t really recommend 16:10 monitors for gaming primarily because most games have their FOV scaled horizontally (HOR+) so you simply lose a bit of your game at the sides and gain no extra FOV vertically. That’s not to say these are bad gaming monitors – see our BenQ review which clearly shows there is a lot to like about them even for gaming.
– The ASUS VN279Q has a lot of potential, but unfortunately the quality control gods haven’t looked too kindly upon this model. We did used to recommend this to users quite openly but have have received many complaints and subsequently users who have returned the monitor to retailers. The uniformity, particularly for black scenes where VAs are supposed to be very strong, is lacking on many VN279Q units. It’s a shame because if you do get a good one it is a very nice monitor and can be potentially a great gaming screen.
– The GW2760HS has sort of been covered above and in the review. One thing I’d point out here is that the GW2760HS does not use particularly strong overdrive compared to other comparable monitors. I hate to chuck in the word ‘subjective’ in here again, but it really is. Some people are absolutely happy to game on this monitor and more power to them! I have mentioned the EW2740L as an alternative with snappier response times (at the expense of a bit of overshoot) which some users would prefer and others would like less. It’s all about weighing things up for you personally and seeing what exactly you expect from your gaming experience.December 10, 2013 at 7:13 pm #26585
Frist of all a big thanks for the very detailed answer you provided here, it made me feel bad that I didnt put in more effort and ask more precise questions!
I feel like it would be easier to differ between the 24″ and the 27″ models.
As for the 24″ models, I did already know about your opinion on the Eizo FS2333 and that was the one that made me look deeper into monitors. In opposition to this there is that prad.de site which claims the Eizo to be anything but expensive and gives it the very best price / performance mark.
Obviously it wont beat the AOC in that terms but how does it compare to the P2414H ?
For the 24″ models im stuck now between the i2369vm , P2414H/U2414H <- I like the design of the U model better, but it seems to be hardly available : / ( and the Eizo ~~ even though I wont need any extra modes, just the basic monitor ).The 16:10 models have been sorted out for me then 🙂
Prices for these monitors would be :
i2369vm ~ 140euro
P2414H ~ 220euro
FS2333 ~ 294euro
As for the 27″ models its stuck between EW2740L, i2757Fm ( and the VN279QLB where prolly luck decides xD ).
EW2740L ~ 290euro
i2757Fm ~ 250euro
VN279QLB ~ 330euro
Whether it will be a 24″ or a 27″ I cant tell so far : / !
I know that its impossible to answer the question with something like “this is the very best choice, go for it” which is why I am interested in your personal opinion. Which one would you buy in my position?
Thanks in advance!December 10, 2013 at 8:23 pm #26591
It depends what you’re comparing the FS2333 to when it comes to price. Around 300 Euros takes it well above the price of competing (that is to say similarly performing) 23″ models from LG, ASUS, Dell, Samsung, Philips… Everyone really. I know PRAD are used to reviewing more expensive models but it is quite strange to suggest it does well on the price vs. performance front really. If you compare it to other EIZOs and some NEC models then maybe but it isn’t really at that level. It is a nice package and if you care for the extra features (you can even change the colour of the power LED – and it has a remote control to change OSD settings) then it probably is worth the extra. Even more so if you like its military design. But for core performance from a gaming perspective there is nothing to shout about really. As an aside the out of the box colour accuracy in the core presets isn’t even that good on the EIZO as indicated by PRAD’s review. I don’t think this matters for general use or gaming at all, but it’s worth mentioning. Furthermore its contrast ratio in these calibrated presets falls below 800:1 which is just not as strong as competing models. This may have something to do with the fact it actually uses a PLS (AD-PLS) rather than IPS panel and that it has had some fairly rigorous tuning done to it in the factory. In my opinion the superior contrast, flicker free backlight and lack of any real overshoot on the Dell P2414H makes it a rather attractive choice in comparison.
I don’t really have anything to add on either 24″ vs. 27″ or IPS vs. VA. I can appreciate it’s a really tough decision though, but it’s not one I can make for you. 🙁December 10, 2013 at 10:06 pm #26592
I think im going to trust you on this, besides thanks to this website and the others the choices have been narrowed down so far that i probably cant make too big a mistake by chosing any of them!
Ill decide in the 23″ / 24″ between the aoc i2369vm and the dell p2414h / u2414h and see whats available and for the 27″ its between the benQ EW2740L and the Asus vn279qlb !
Either way ill decide it in the next week ;D
Thanks for spending your time!December 10, 2013 at 11:07 pm #26593
No problem! And you’re absolutely right, they’re all very good monitors so none of them will be a bad choice. 🙂February 17, 2014 at 2:28 pm #28357
The Eizo FG2421 is interesting.
Maybe BenQ will make a 120 Hz model too. (cheaper than eizo of course)
Waiting for some new models from BenQ this year.February 17, 2014 at 2:47 pm #28361
A 120Hz VA panel from BenQ would be very interesting. It would probably have to make use a strobe backlight mode like the FG2421 does to help hide some of the sluggish pixel transitions. Then again AUO (BenQ-owned panel producer) have already been pushing their VA panels past what I originally thought possible when it comes to responsiveness so who knows? It would likely be cheaper than the EIZO (which uses a Sharp MVA panel) but price aside it would hopefully have better quality control as well. That’s something that really lets the FG2421 down regardless of its price.February 22, 2014 at 4:07 pm #28470
Hi. I’m choosing a 27 inch monitor. At this moment i’m using Samsung b2440, and i want to move to the Ips/Mva. I read a lot about them (things like pwm and crystal effect, overdrive and other). And now i’m choosing between Dell s2740l and Benq EW2740L/Benq gw2760hs.
I visited several stores and examined 2 Dell monitors. I like it, glossy screen doesn’t seems like a problem, but the monitors i looked have an dead pixels (2-4) but they are not visible if you do not examine (is a few dead pixels is the problem?)
I could not find Benq monitors in the store so i couldnt compare them. I want to use monitor for games and movies basically, and i prefer Ips/Mva over TN. Ah-Ips has beautiful colors but I have not seen AMVA and I am afraid that the color reproduction is much worse than ips. Also i don’t know anything about Benq quality and there are many bad feedback.
What confuses in Dell monitor is strong overdrive and significantly higher price (about 30-40%). But the price not a decisive factor. Please, help me to take a decision.February 22, 2014 at 5:37 pm #28472
There is really no definitive answer here because it’s completely subjective whether you would find one of the new AMVA+ models or an AH-IPS model better. Take a look through this thread which I added your post to. In particular my first reply, as it gives really as much guidance as can be given about how these AMVA+ and AH-IPS models compare in the ‘real world’.
The overdrive on the S2740L puts a lot of people off, but it’s something that simply doesn’t bother everyone. There is a growing thread which started out as some positive feedback on the S2440L and has grown to include feedback about the Dell S series more broadly. This really shows that the overdrive ‘issues’ aren’t really issues for everyone. By the same token some people find VA models simply too slow for gaming, others find them fine. For movies the responsiveness isn’t an issue and they offer the most atmospheric and enjoyable movie experience, in my opinion, especially in dark scenes.
As for dead pixels and other issues, they can and do strike any monitor. They are not specific to any individual unit or manufacturer – the S2740L isn’t any more prone to them than the next monitor. And BenQ models are fine as far as quality goes. You’ll find bad things said about pretty much any monitor, particularly at this price, if you go digging for it. Some definitely have worse quality control than others, but the models you’re considering are all similar in that regard. You can’t let issues that some people have with their units (it’s an inevitability) put you off or you’ll never want to buy any monitor.February 26, 2014 at 8:49 pm #28551
Hello friends and PCM2.
I am Henry from Spain.
Please, first, sorry for my limited english.
I have the P2414H near a month , and tomorrow it is the last day that I can change it in amazon for another monitor.
I wonder if I should switch to AMVA+ panel , because I don’t like the IPS glow.
I use the monitor for web browsing and gaming ( to FPS and third person shooter). I am not a professional gamer that need TN panel for fastest response, my previous monitor was a ips dell fpw2005.
I don’t like the blacks on this Dell monitor because in games I don’t see the real differences in black scenes, and I would like to test a amva+ panel, but I have fear to change it and then have it less responsiveness and the famous overshoot that I have seen in the review of EW2740L
The difference in speed between P2414h and EW2470L , it is little or it is great??
I have seen the Benq EW2740L , GW2760H and some Asus, but I would like to know what it is the best ( I think that the new EW2740L , not?)
And by other side, 1080p in a 27″ at 60-70cm of the eyes, it is bad? I will see the pixels and bad quality image????? or I can change it the size without fear.
Please tell me , that tomorrow it is the last day.
Thanks friend.March 14, 2014 at 3:36 pm #28872
So Im going to bring this one back again….as you know Ive been looking hard at monitors. The blacks on the VA panels intrigue me for sure.
One in particular is the Asus ASUS VN279Q. I know it seems to have had its issues but right now its very inexpensive. Also Im not sure the issues are founded. People complain about the blacks, but it seems like the issues may i fact be because of the Nvidia drivers and not the panel itself. Ive also heard about the gamma issues it may have as well and I wonder if these can be corrected with a little calibration.
Its a pity because this seems to be one of the faster, if not the fastest, VA monitors out there.
The other VA option out there is the The BenQ EW2740L…this one is a bit more money and nearly as responsive as the Asus…but also it seems to suffer from black crush at times and has some ghosting and/or overshoot issues. Honestly though I’m not really sure how overshoot would affect me. The thing is the price….where its at in the market..its right in line with more responsive IPS panels and I may be inclined to go that way at that point but Im not sure.
I really need to see for myself but its been a challenge even finding a VA panel on display…let alone one sitting next to an IPS that I can play with.March 14, 2014 at 5:52 pm #28873
I would love to draw a detailed comparison between the two monitors and know for sure where the VN279Q stands in all of this, but that’s very difficult to do seeing as I haven’t tested the monitor myself. From feedback I’ve received from users and extensive reading on the monitor it does seem that it can be a potentially very good monitor. ‘Black crush’ is certainly not an issue unique to the EW2740L, it’s simply a characteristic of VA gamma behaviour. In fact it’s less pronounced on ‘AMVA+’ models such as the EW2740L and VN279Q which both show exhibit very similar behaviour in that regard. As noted in the EW2740L review the overall depth of blacks and dark shades and atmosphere created in dark scenes is exceptional on these sorts of monitors – something you simply don’t get on IPS or IPS-type panels.
Coming back to the VN279Q, it does indeed have more flexible overdrive options than the EW2740L. It allows users to achieve a better balance between reasonable acceleration and no noticeable inverse ghosting – similar to the Samsung S27C750P which really sets the standard for well-optimised pixel responsiveness in VA form. I share your thoughts that some of these stories of really poor contrast and colour issues could be influenced by the incorrect colour signal being used. It was conventional wisdom that because the monitor uses a DisplayPort input, you can use that without having to worry about such things. A number of monitors (most famously of course the Dell U2414H) has shown that there are no guarantees with DP and that on some monitors you need to employ a custom resolution (Nvidia GPUs and Intel chipsets) to try to address the issue.
I haven’t received any detailed user feedback on this model recently but a number of these have been sold through the site and there have not been any returns. It’s always a difficult thing to recommend ‘IPS’ or ‘VA’ as it’s so subjective. It’s really something you’d have to see for yourself. Buying from somewhere with a good returns policy and sending it back if you aren’t satisfied is always an option – that way you’ll know for sure.March 17, 2014 at 8:41 pm #28967
I) I have a question about BenQ GW2760HS, Is the new lot for 2014 still use semi- glossy screen like shown on your review? (or change to use pure matte screen)
2) What kind of screen coating GW2460HM use? Matte or Semi-Glossy?
Thank You Very MuchMarch 17, 2014 at 9:24 pm #28969
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