[yahooligan]

Thank you! Great discussion here!

As I cannot find a lot about the responsiveness of the BL2700HT, I will probably go with the EW2750ZL as a kind of save choice regarding the panel. If necessary I can go for the old “paper-package under the screen” to adjust the height. 😉

[Pyoro]

So, the time has come for me to decide whether to keep the iiyama monitor.

Quality control–wise, I did indeed end up with a slightly defective monitor, but the defect was a 0.3sqcm bright spot that was only noticeable when the monitor was displaying almost white colours – so during day-to-day work, but not in any other situation. I could get used to it, I think. Otherwise, it was in good order, with a uniform non-bleeding backlight, no tint and no dead pixels.

I was mostly happy with the monitor. It had great colours and blacks. I didn’t have time to test responsiveness.

The biggest nuisance with the monitor was its black crush. Very dark shades got compacted into black, and were revealed with lateral head movement. It was problematic because it made visibility unnaturally poor in dark scenes and thus took away from the atmosphere.

I compared this to the P2414H’s at uni. Rather confusingly, it transpired that I mistook some of these for P2412H’s (TNs) and the “IPS glow” I noticed was in fact some kind of terrible discoloured TN glow. It was even more noticeable now. But more importantly, when I tested actual P2414H’s, I didn’t notice any glow. I was unable to test these in a dark room, so I don’t know how bad it is in those conditions (and how annoying it is compared to VA black crush), but I thought the blacks were good in bright lighting, and the colours even better.

The iiyama’s surface is not very hazy; it’s slightly annoying with a white background while working, but otherwise fine. I would say the same about the P2414H, though I haven’t looked closely to compare. I did occasionally find the iiyama wearing on the eyes in dark conditions. I’m not sure if that’s possibly due to the coating or just excessive brightness/contrast settings (I varied these but mostly had them at about 60 each, which was usually fine in this regard).

So those are my thoughts. It’s a shame I haven’t yet had the chance to test an IPS in dark conditions, but the black crush problem and small defect are pushing me to try out the Samsung. I’m not sure… any thoughts?

[PCM2]

Some great feedback there and a valuable contribution to this thread. Obviously it’s quite subjective, but I personally prefer the atmosphere that a decent VA monitor produces in dark scenes over that created by any other panel type. Whilst the black crush isn’t ideal, if you view content in dimmer conditions I feel this is preferable to ‘IPS glow’, pronounced vertical TN gamma shifts and weaker contrast in general. And just because you don’t ‘see’ the glow it doesn’t mean it isn’t having an impact on the image.

The thing to remember about ‘black crush’ is that it is also gamma dependent. Meaning that the gamma that the monitor is calibrated to will effect its intensity. Sometimes monitors have modified gamma curves which purposefully raise dark shades so they are more visible. I’ve seen this on some Samsung and BenQ models. The modifications here can be subtle so that by many measurements it appears to be following ‘2.2 gamma’ strictly, but actually it isn’t – and that’s no accident. Regardless, if there are different gamma modes I wouldn’t be afraid to experiment with them. But this is all about personal preferences – there is no right or wrong answer as to whether you should keep the Iiyama or switch to an IPS model.

[Pyoro]

Right. I don’t think there are different gamma modes on the iiyama, just a knock-on modification of gamma from changing the contrast. I thought the black crush was quite intense on the usual contrast setting of 80 (though I’ve forgotten what the gamma is like on that with the recommended custom colour preset). Is there a general correlation between black crush and gamma? It doesn’t seem to me there’s much I can do to improve it. Potentially, it was exaggerated by the rather drab colours of the source material (which had a lot of dark detail); a different TV show had rather oversaturated, bright colours, and no black crush was noticeable (I kept thinking I was seeing it, but shifting my head did nothing).

I might have to test an IPS properly to decide this. The question is, if I decide I prefer the iiyama and reorder it, would I get a more defective or less defective unit? :p

[PCM2]

There certainly is a correlation between black crush and gamma – it is the viewing angle depdendent changes in gamma that cause it in the first place. Its effects are mitigated by reducing gamma, but obviously that has consequences elsewhere and is why it’s best for the monitor to try to selectively enhance the shades effected by ‘black crush’. It can never be entirely alleviated, however.

[Malinkadink]

Recently ordered the GW2470H, getting it tomorrow afternoon and will be looking to see how far i can get it to OC and whether or not OCing it has any adverse effects on the image quality. You listed the monitor as having 2 HDMI 1.4 ports, are they 1.4a? Or just normal 1.4? Does it really matter in how high i’ll be able to push the OC before it going out of range? If i can do 75hz that’s already pretty good, anything higher will definitely be a bonus. I know the EW2750ZL does 75hz without any trouble, so i can only speculate that the GW2470H will be able to reproduce those results. There is a korean review for the monitor floating around and its capable of 3900:1 static contrast, and all the presets were giving 99+% sRGB coverage, so with an calibration i’ll be seeing 100% surely. I’m pretty excited to get my hands on it and put it side by side with my vg248qe and have it be put to shame in terms of image quality.

[PCM2]

I look forward to your thoughts! I’m not sure on the exact HDMI revision, but I’d expect a 75Hz overclock to be easy enough to achieve (hopefully). I have also seen said review and have high hopes for this model. It is definitely on my review list, although no samples are currently available and I’m a bit pre-occupied with other reviews.

[Malinkadink]

Okay so i got the monitor and have been playing around with the settings a bit. I was able to get 98% sRGB coverage, the gamut volume is 110% though. Contrast ratio measures at exactly 3000:1. 100//95/91 are my RGB values. Gamma i set to 1 as that is the closest to 2.2, but when i run HCFR to verify, i get a value closer to 2.4 gamma. Doing this test.

I can’t see anything before 5, and 5 is also pretty hard to make out. My VG248QE i can make out all the pieces. Maybe i’m expecting a bit too much for a $160 monitor, but at the same time i feel like something is wrong with my equipment if i got such different values from the review? HCFR reports a good grayscale with everything being <1 Delta E, the colors are a bit of a different story though. 4.2 Delta E for Red, 3.6 Green, 2.0 Blue, 3.2 Yellow, and Cyan is a good 0.6, and Magenta also a decent 1.2. I calibrated with my colormunki display using dispcal with 6500K and 2.2 gamma.

[PCM2]

Thanks for the feedback so far. Although for monitors like this I’m not so interested in what your colorimeter has to say about the centre of the monitor. Gamma and shade reproduction must be considered on the whole, as perceived by your eyes, given the usual VA viewing angle related shifts. This isn’t a monitor you bought for critical colour accuracy and should therefore consider its shade reproduction differently.

The black test results should not be compared to a monitor like the VG248QE which artificially enhances detail at the low-end , either. The first two blocks on that test should not be visible under normal 2.2 gamma and the third should be pretty indistinct. Given the black crush mentioned earlier in this thread and on reviews of similar models it isn’t really surprising to see the fourth and fifth block blend in a bit too really either (more likely if the central gamma is actually 2.4). Look at the screen from a sharper angle or try to move these blocks to the edges and you’ll see something quite different.

I’d be interested to know what you feel about the colour reproduction in general (perhaps comparing before and after calibration), the screen surface and responsiveness. And out of curiosity, is there a ‘Gamma = 0’ mode on the monitor as there was on the EW2750ZL?

[Malinkadink]

There is no Gamma = 0 mode, the lowest is Gamma 1 and that reports a 2.4 for me. The screen surface is definitely matte, not semi glossy, but also not very grainy either. The color reproduction is pretty good, compared to my TN it’s light years ahead. Viewing angles are also good, way better than TN, but not quite as strong as an IPS. The responsiveness is poor, at least to me, but that’s probably because i’m coming from a 1ms 144hz monitor down to 72hz 16ms according to BenQ’s spec sheet. I noticed something i never saw before and that was when i was playing WoW, in orgrimmar i spotted a horde banner that had the horde symbol in black with a dark grey border stitching on a red banner. When in motion i would see the dark grey border around the symbol smearing. I guess this is just a VA thing with having slower pixel transitions and it’s normal, this is also on AMA High, i didn’t test Off or Extreme, guessing that Off would add more ghosting, and Extreme adding severe overshoot.

I’ve since recalibrated from power law 2.2 which was instead giving me power law 2.4 for some reason and just a very dark image to BT.1886 and the gamma curve is perfect now, or well really close to perfect. I’ve also gotten the Blue Delta E down a little to 1.7. Contrast is showing as 2944:1, still within spec. Looking at the black level test again on lagom i can see all but the first square from a center viewing position.

In conclusion i really appreciate the higher contrast of a VA panel, but i feel that it’s too slow for my use and i’ll just need to grab one of the shiny new 1440p AHVA 144hz monitors and cope with the glow, perhaps introduce some bias lighting into the pitch black cave i play in.

[PCM2]

Very interesting and useful feedback, thanks for that. You’re absolutely right regarding responsiveness. There are certain transitions that even the fastest VA panels would struggle with. It’s important to appreciate a much broader range of pixel transitions than the Playwares review did for this reason, otherwise a misleading picture is painted. I think trying out one of the 144Hz AHVA models and introducing bias lighting is an excellent idea and will hopefully give you a more enjoyable gaming experience.

[KDE]

I noticed that IPS like BL2420PT have Contrast (checkerboard) only 158:1, but TN and AMVA have over 300:1.
Will it influence readability of non-antialiased text on black or white background?

[Ocd]

Hi PCM2, I recently returned my E390 as I couldn’t deal with the dark screen uniformity, so I gave up after going through a couple of exchanges.

I also decided to try the RL2455HM, and I thought it was awful, I could live with a tn panel, as I only view the monitor from one position, and once I tilted the screen it was ok. However the trailing around objects during any motion was terrible. Enabling AMA on high or premium was NOT an option at all due to the dark trails, and with it off there was yellow trails. The only plus side was the uniformity was pretty good to be fair.

The Samsung despite quoting a 4ms response time as opposed to the 1ms BenQ had much better motion with no major trailing. As you’ve said many times, people really need to not put much faith in quoted response times, as they’re mainly marketing numbers.

Anyway I recently ordered the 32E590C, but it’s not one you’ve reviewed (or anyone else for that matter). I imagine 1080p 32″ pc monitors certainly aren’t popular, but have you got any potential feedback?

I bought it primarily for console gaming, with the hope that the uniformity will be better, I’ve also ordered the gw2470h, just waiting for it to come back into stock.

I know they’re both very different sizes, but I’m not bothered about the size, 24″ is fine, hence why I bought the 24″ Samsung E390.

I’m hoping I get lucky with one of them…..If I get no joy then I’m not sure what I’ve got left to try. I only want a 1080p monitor so I’m limiting my potential choice straight off the bat.

[PCM2]

KDE – in short, no. ANSI contrast measurements are an absolutely awful indication of what the eye perceives on the screen as well. Ignore such measurements.

OCD – thanks for sharing your thoughts and experiences. You’ve listed several monitors you’ve ‘ordered’ but it doesn’t appear any have been bought using our links. Why is that? I’m also not sure why you’re willing to try models like the GW2470H and S32E590C but not a model that is well-documented to be one of the best Full HD VA models out there, the EW2750ZL. It is very unlikely that the other options are any more responsive, so that wouldn’t be a valid reason.

[Ocd]

Well I received the 32E590C, and initial impressions are not great.

There appears to be a weird bug where the monitor does not display 4:4:4 chroma unless you go into PC/AV mode and then switch it into AV and then back into PC.

But as soon as you switch the monitor off, or the source then you need to do it again. I’ve tested various sources, such as a pc, 2 games consoles, laptop using the hdmi output.

I’ve been using a 4:4:4 test image to confirm my findings. This is a dealbreaker for me as I don’t want to have to mess about with those settings each time. I’d have assumed being a monitor it should be at 4:4:4 by default???

The lack of 4:4:4 is very obvious on things like red/magenta text colours etc, and everything just looks blurry/low res.

Aside from that I was impressed by the panel itself, not any real major backlight bleed, very deep blacks etc but this bug is too annoying for me.

Its not even as though you can update the firmware on these monitors, so not sure what to do….

[PCM2]

Sorry to hear you’re not getting on with the S32E590C. It does sound rather odd regarding the strange Chroma handling. That is not usual for a monitor at all. I assume you’re using the correct colour signal in the GPU driver?

And assuming nothing can be done, what about considering the 27″ AMVA+ models?

[Ocd]

Yeah everything is set correctly on the PC. As I said if I change from The AV/PC mode from PC to AV and back to PC again it fixes it.

The issue is it then doesn’t stay if the source restarts, or you turn the monitor off. If you ever get one in for review I’d be intrigued to see if you come across the same thing.

I’m not sure if it’s “faulty”, I’m thinking that it’s an inherent issue with the monitor. Although I’m going to try one more to rule that out.

It’s a shame because that problem aside the uniformity is really good, infact it’s the best monitor I’ve had with regards to backlight bleed, there’s minimal trailing with the monitor on its default “faster” mode, and it produces a very good image. While I don’t have any equipment to test the input lag, it feels very responsive while gaming too.

If the replacement suffers from the same issue I’ll be ordering the ew2750zl (using your link, Afterall it costs me nothing and it’s a token way of saying thank you). I just hope the ew2750zl is as responsive as the Samsung.

The reason I initially pre-ordered the gw2470h is because I read that it used the newest amva+ panel so assumed it might be better.

[PCM2]

It does sound extremely frustrating having a monitor that you like in many ways but that suffers from such an obnoxious little ‘bug’ (for lack of a better word). It probably wouldn’t change anything, but when you get your new one could you check whether manual vs. automatic port selection makes any difference?

[Ocd]

Hi PCM2, I had actually tried switching from auto to manual source selction and it made no difference.

Another thing I forgot to mention is aside from the chroma changing when the source was turned off and then switched on, or when the monitor went off, it also done the same thing if I changed source from either hdm1 to hdmi2 or display port.

After some googling I found some complaints of users commenting on the monitor being blurry. Initially I thought it might just be complaints due to the pixel pitch being a 32″ at “only” 1080p, but I’m wondering if it’s because of the bug.

What confuses me is why it isn’t 4:4:4 by default being a pc monitor in the first place. It seems to act more like a TV. The frustrating thing is if it was a “firmware bug” then there’s no actual way of upgrading firmware etc, so it’s not as though it could be patched or anything.

I’m hoping it was a fault with the monitor, but the more I think about it, the more I’m convinced it’s how they all are. Anyway I guess I’ll see how the replacement is, if it’s the same then I think it’s fair to assume it might be the way they are.

Hopefully as I said you might get to have some hands on time with one, and see what you make of it.

[PCM2]

Did you check all inputs as well (both HDMI ports and DisplayPort?) I really hope your replacement is better as well, but as you say it sounds as if it may be how they all are.

[Author]

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