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PCM2I had initially posted this in the ‘Rise of Mini LED and QD-OLED’ thread. But technically this relates to OLED (RGB OLED, more specifically) rather than QD-OLED. I’m receiving some news out of China via one of my helpful Twitter contacts which strongly suggests that the joint venture vetween Sony and Panasonic (JOLED) has been scaling up their panel production well. They make the panels used in LG’s OLED monitors like the 27BP95E and 32BP95E.
It appears brands including AOC, Philips, BenQ, ASUS and ViewSonic are interested in launching some models. These will be ~27″ ‘4K’ UHD 60Hz models initially and I’d expect ~32″ models to follow. I’d expect as production further improves the focus can shift towards higher refresh rates. The initial offerings should comfortably undercut the price of LG’s current OLED monitors (hopefully below $1000 USD). There will be a few different panels used, including:
EPM269Q14A = Very low haze / close to glossy (7% haze specified)
EPM269Q015A = Light matte (25% haze specified)
EPM269Q017A = Stronger matte, higher haze offering
EsaTWTF is wrong with makers that they can’t get above 60Hz in PC monitor size, while 120Hz OLED TVs have been out for many years?
Don’t see there being such huge number of photoshoppers with that much loose money that making 60Hz panels for them is great business.
DegraderI had the LG 27EP950 for a while and I like it very much. 60 Hz was enough for me in particularly given the extremely low response times. The coating on the panel was semi glossy, even more glossy than semi-glossy offerings, but still in light parts haze was clearly visible. I didn’t saw such combination earlier. While gaming was very nice in HDR with the infinite contrast and very wide color gamut, reading text was giving me headache. I think because of sort of PWM used in the JOLED panels. See also TFTCentral
Now I have the Dell U2723QE for already two months which has for an IPS panel a great contrast ratio of 2000:1.PCM2Thanks for sharing your thoughts on those models, Degrader. On the LG 27EP950 the ‘PWM-like’ behaviour involves brightness dips that are very slight compared to typical PWM. It could still cause issues, particularly given the relatively low refresh rate, but I’ve also heard from people who are particularly sensitive to typical PWM and find OLED models comfortable. Everybody’s eyes are different. 🙂
I would personally much prefer seeing high refresh rate offerings from JOLED and I’m confident they will come in good time. But you certainly must be finding a significant difference between the LG and your Dell which has quite slow pixel responses for an IPS model. The contrast downgrade must be noticeable, but at least it’s relatively good for the panel type as you say. Of course, if it offers you a comfortable experience that’s very important. 🙂
DegraderThe pixel response time is indeed much higher than on the LG, but for me it is still good enough in games like Forza 5 Horizon. The contrast is of course much lower, but in practice not very obvious (let alone in a well lit room). What bothers me the most is the typical IPS glow. LG’s promise of ”Deep Blacks from Sides” (IPS Black) is just not true unfortunately. Discovering that was for me the biggest disappointment, but overall I’m very happy with the Dell.
PCM2Further information on one of the ~27″ offerings, the Philips 27E1N8900. Current Chinese pricing converts to ~$1070 USD – no plans from Philips to release this in Europe, but should be arriving in North America (as well as Asia) according to information I’ve received.
DegraderDoes the 27EP950 have the same panel as the Philips, EPM269Q14A? Because the haze, while low (only 7%), is in my opinion still (clearly) visible in light parts. More than you would expect from such a low haze coating. On one side it is almost glossy, I would say even more than semi glossy, but on the other hand quite grainy.
PCM2The EPM269Q14A apparently hasn’t been used in another product yet from the information I’ve received. I’m not sure exactly what panel the 27EP950 uses or its haze value. From images I’ve seen it looks quite a bit higher than 7%, I’d classify it as ‘very light matte’ rather than ‘close to glossy’. But as covered in our screen surface article, screen surfaces are complex 3D structures. You can still have a low haze value and relatively grainy screen surface, just like you can have a higher haze value with smooth finish to the screen surface. And you can also have monitors or panels with similar haze values specified and very different screen surface characteristics and glare handling (relevant thread). I’ve just updated the screen surface article to better reflect these facts (no pun intended) as well.
PCM2Our ASUS PA32DC review has been published and will give you a good insight into the capabilities of these JOLED panels. Obviously there’s a lot more going on with that monitor than just the panel, which it puts to excellent use. But there are some characteristics I came across which I haven’t seen reported in other (less subjectively thorough) reviews of such models.
DegraderI saw it, thank you!
Nice to see your description about the coating, it is exactly what I found on the 27EP950. The HDR peak brightness for the LG is by the way a tad higher than the Asus. But could you use the monitor for hours reading things on it? My eyes were hurting a lot!
PCM2I could use the PA32DC for extended periods without particular pain or visual discomfort, yes. Although I was at times slightly aware of the brightness dips, particularly when I first started using the monitor. Hard to describe, but when my eyes were tired in particular I could kind of ‘sense’ them. But I did get used to this and I can’t associate any discomfort with that. For me I find the 60Hz refresh rate more ‘uncomfortable’ if anything, as I’m used to much higher refresh rates – even on the desktop. But these factors are all subjective and everyone’s eyes are different. 🙂
PCM2Word out of Korea suggests JOLED is filing for bankruptcy having failed to secure the necessary investment to grow their business as planned. The company is relatively small and haven’t scaled up to a self-sustaining level yet, so this isn’t promising.
PCM2It seems JOLED is continuing to operate, into 2023. In fact I’ve just received rumour (and I repeat, this is a rumour) that the company may release 144Hz OLED panels from Q4 2023.
EsaTWell, guess light occasionally leaks even into sewer of situation in getting desktop grade self emissive pixel tech panels.
Though it’s propably going to be paper release for 2024 CES with actual monitors available unknown time later…PCM2Well the writing was on the wall and now, sadly, the company has officially filed for bankruptcy.
EsaTActually saw that some days ago in here:
https://www.oled-info.com/joled-files-bankruptcy-japan-display-take-over-assetsThough Japan Display which is supposed to take over assets has itself struggled to get mass production going and propably needed this collaboration with Chinese HKC to stay viable.
https://www.oled-info.com/hkc-start-making-amoled-displays-collaboration-jdi-using-its-eleap-production
At least that tech to boost brightness and efficiency is good news for durability. Though once again subpixel layout is non-standard…
djkrisdeeI just noticed that you can buy Philips 27E1N8900 from Amazon.de for €874.44(£754) delivered to UK.
I know it’s only 60hz without VRR, but 27″ 4k resolution, and standard RGB subpixel layout.
250cd/m2 for 100% white.
Peak brightness is only 550 cd/m2, but you will get that for 1-50% window.
For example WOLED and QD-OLEDS can only do 250-330 cd/m2 for 50% white.PCM2One of my friends (who is a bit of a monitor aficionado) owns the Philips and he’s really happy with it. He was after something in OLED flavour that can be used for productivity without fringing issues, for AAA game titles where high frame rates aren’t possible for him and for movie watching. The Philips really hit the spot for him. It’s also quite adaptable under HDR as it has different presets which can either use as much of the native gamut as possible (which is usual for monitors under HDR), one I believe offers some sort of oversaturation (like a Rec. 2020 emulation of sorts) and another that hard-clamps to DCI-P3. Similar to some of the flexibility seen on the PA32DC.
djkrisdeeOne thing that I don’t like on JOLED monitors is screen coating. Looks to me like semi-gloss on cheap LCD TV.
I’m big fan of glossy AG, but something like it is on LG C1/C2.I don’t understand why people buy OLEDs with matt AG coating.
Even in bright room with direct reflection still prefer glossy.
Matt screens only make sense in office.😉PCM2Yeah, I’m not fond of the typical JOLED screen surface either. It offers poor glare handling (invites more reflections or sharp glare patches than the QD-OLED models with their effective AR glossy treatment) and although it doesn’t ‘lighten up’ in quite the same way as QD-OLED in brighter conditions, it has a distinct blue cast to it there. Example vs. standard ‘light to very light’ matte surface on an LCD. It also has a bit of graininess to it, a slightly sandy texture when observing brighter shades that’s absent on glossy surfaces.
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