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- February 3, 2021 at 8:07 am #63299tanne
Hi,
I’m currently using a 23″ Dell U2311HM 1080p 60hz IPS monitor that has a very responsive 6 bit display and according to prad.de an input lag of just 1.1ms and a “half average frame change time” (don’t ask me what that is supposed to mean) of 8.2ms which (according to prad) adds up to a total latency of 9.3ms.
Even though it is just 60hz, I can game well enough on this display. For my future PC that I am about to buy I want my next monitor to be at least as good as my current one regarding response times.Generally I would prefer a 4k display. In case of 4k I would also be okay with it just being a 60hz panel. But according to all the reviews I checked on here, rtings and prad.de there is no model available with decent response times. So I gave up on this plan..
Currently I’m looking at 27″ WQHD models and my future screen has to fulfill the following requirements:
– Display texts very clearly (btw: I’m using Linux, so I don’t know if Cleartype will work, thus don’t want to rely on Cleartype). I’m reading A LOT on my monitor, so this is an important point
– >=75hz
– Priced <=500 EUR/USD/GBP
– I don’t care about color accuracy
– Not sooo important: Solid build (I’m using a dedicated monitor arm and I have to push and pull the display often. I would prefer the frame not to creak when being handled)WQHD 144+hz displays that I looked into:
1. HP Omen 27i: I like the angular look and its build quality but when I read about the eye strain caused by those LG Nano IPS panels I forgot about that.
2. Gigabyte M27Q: Performance looks good, however the BGR pixel structure and its impact on text clarity rule that one out.
3. Benq EX2780Q: Seems like the best WQHD 144hz display. If only I would not absolutely HATE its design. 🙁
My questions:
1. Currently I’m focussing on the Benq EX2780, despite its ugliness, and the ASUS PA278QV with 75hz which received very good ratings from all major review sites. Are there any other monitors that I forgot to consider?
2. I am under the impression that monitors aimed for the gaming market are just not as good for reading texts due to certain display properties. Might that be true?
3. The newly released WQHD 144hz LG UltraGear 27GN800-B doesn’t seem to have the Nano IPS panel according to LGs website. I have high hopes for that one. Anyone has already info on that panel? Or maybe on the new Acer Nitro VG2 XV272UKV?
February 3, 2021 at 8:26 am #63303PCM2Hi tanne,
It is more accurate to say that the Dell U2311HM has a 1.1ms signal delay and 9.3ms input lag, according to PRADs measurements. Whilst signal delay is the important part of input lag in that it’s the main element you ‘feel’, when other websites including ours and users discuss input lag more broadly, it refers to both elements. I’m not really sure I trust PRAD’s signal delay measurement there and some of their input lag measurements on various reviews have been highly suspect, but I don’t want to discuss that here. There’s nothing special about the responsiveness of the U2311HM, I used it myself a while back and the original version of our website even had a review up. Don’t think of this ‘1.1ms’ as anything other than fantasy, nor that you need a monitor with that level of input lag (this isn’t input lag). If you’re happy with 60Hz, you’ll find many of the 60Hz ‘4K’ UHD models including those we recommend just fine. Further discussions on the ‘4K’ path can be found in these threads and a few others:
https://forum.pcmonitors.info/topic/best-32-4k-options/
https://forum.pcmonitors.info/topic/32-inch-for-dci-p3-and-rgb-work-with-good-text-clarity/
https://forum.pcmonitors.info/topic/which-4k-uhd-monitor/
https://forum.pcmonitors.info/topic/4k-uhd-monitor-to-work-with-text/I also need to make you aware that using ‘2K’ alongside ‘4K’ is extremely inaccurate and misleading. You should avoid using the term ‘2K’, which is why I changed every instance of that in your post to WQHD. The 2560 x 1440 (WQHD) resolution is NOT half of the 3840 x 2160 (‘4K’ UHD) resolution. 1440p is also acceptable shorthand for this resolution, or simply QHD (Quad High Definition) without the W (Wide) at the start. To address your questions:
1) I don’t agree that the EX2780Q is “ugly”, but looks are subjective so that’s a pointless argument to have. I didn’t think much of it from pictures of the monitor, but found its rustic aesthetic quite endearing in person. I find most models quite ‘boring’ in comparison. We cover these models and others in detail in this thread which is well worth reading through.
2) Not at all true. The aforementioned BenQ model and most others sharing its Innolux panel are fine for text viewing, as are models with Nano IPS panels and recent AUO panels – all of these are mentioned in that thread I just linked to. Most users will actually find even the Gigabyte M27Q fine for text clarity, although I’m not sure that would necessarily be the case on Linux. There are no specific issues most of these modern IPS-type gaming monitors have which are related to their subpixels. And many of the panels they use have 60Hz variants which are really very similar aside from refresh rate and perhaps backlight used. Many factors affect viewing comfort more broadly, but these apply to all models.
3) The LG 27GN800 is mentioned in the thread I just linked to. It is simply a mild refresh of the 27GL83A, which is not a Nano IPS model. I believe they might actually use a BOE panel, but I’m not 100% sure. They certainly don’t have a KSF phosphor backlight, which is a key feature of Nano IPS and actually used in various iterations in most of the wide gamut models being considered here. I believe all Acer ‘KV’ (VisionCare 3.0) and ‘NV’ (VisionCare 4.0) models, which includes the XV272U KV, use Innolux AAS panels with KSF phosphors. But the blue peak is shifted to be less energetic vs. current known ‘Nano IPS’ iterations, which is a key criteria for ‘Eyesafe’ certification by TÜV Rheinland.
All things considered, with your uses in mind and the fact you are by your own admission quite happy with your current Dell in terms of responsiveness and refresh rate. I think you’d find the ASUS PA278QV a nice upgrade. You’d find the design agreeable as well, which I know can be an important part of the overall experience. The 2560 x 1440 (WQHD) resolution is much better for productivity than 1920 x 1080 (Full HD) and a large step up (‘legacy article’ – yay) even without going all the way to 3840 x 2160 (‘4K’ UHD). You didn’t mention your GPU or what games you ‘lightly play’. But you also need to be aware that having a 144Hz refresh rate is only useful in games if you can drive a suitably high frame rate. If your frame rate is likely to be 75fps or under at 2560 x 1440 with the settings you use and games you like to play, there’s no advantage there with going for a higher refresh rate than 75Hz anyway. So the PA278QV should be perfectly adequate in that respect.
February 4, 2021 at 7:50 am #63319tanneWow, thanks for that amazingly detailed feedback! I will take a look into those links that you’ve kindly provided.
Don’t think of this ‘1.1ms’ as anything other than fantasy, nor that you need a monitor with that level of input lag (this isn’t input lag). If you’re happy with 60Hz, you’ll find many of the 60Hz ‘4K’ UHD models including those we recommend just fine.
Before that Dell, I have used an HP ZR2440W 24″ 60hz 1080p monitor for years. PRAD has measured its overall latency to 25.5ms. FPS were totally unplayable on that screen, I got motion sickness from the delay and the screen-smearing. So I stopped gaming until, a couple of years later, the monitor broke. I’ve then got this old Dell I’m currently using from a friend and due to the pandemic I’ve recently started to try to play old FPS again. And to my surprise, it has really worked out well so far, using this U2312HM screen. Of course I can see the 60hz limitation, but there is no “screen-smearing” or noticeable delay compared to the HP that I had been using before.
When I had been at my parent’s home over xmas, I also have been gaming on their monitor, which is a newer 24″ 60hz FullHD Dell monitor (I don’t remember the particular model) and even though it was playable, it was way worse compared to my own Dell. So what I want to say is that prad’s measurements (in this case) seem valid to me. And if their tests are consistent, I would not want a panel that has been tested with >=20ms (which is, like I pointed out before, the range of all 4k monitors that I’ve read reviews on).
Regarding your “2k” reply: Alright, WQHD it is from now on! 😉
Regarding your reply on the potential differences of gaming and office monitors: Glad to hear that, I was hoping for that answer!
Regarding your information on the LG 27GN800 and your ASUS PA278QV advice: That is very interesting! I now have high hopes concerning the LG and I think I will wait for a review of it. While the ASUS has received a very good score on all its reviews, it still has PWM. And while it is doing that at a high frequency, I think I still would prefer my future monitor to not have that. I somehow believe that while it might not be noticeable, I think that it still might cause more eye strain/fatigue than a panel without it. And I’m having loooooooong sessions each day and my eyes get tired a lot :/
Regarding my future PC setup: I’m not going to get a dedicated GPU. Either AMD APU or Intel Xe iGPU will be it. I’m currently only playing a very old shooter (Xonotic) at lowest settings and at interpolated 1280×720 resolution and even my iGPU of my 2500k is good enough for it. An honestly, I don’t even wanna game anymore.. I have just gotten addicted to that shooter.. Stupid corona 😉
February 4, 2021 at 8:04 am #63322PCM2There’s a huge gulf between a total latency of 9.3ms and 25.5ms and the ZR2440W is clearly the ‘laggier’ monitor – but that doesn’t mean the figures are accurate and should be taken and gospel. As I said, not going to get into it too much here but there are some models they’ve tested that have set off alarm bells due to my own testing, other professional testing, user feedback and if I recall correctly even the G-SYNC certification process in some cases. One of those models is the 328E1CA, by the way, which I am extremely confident does not have anywhere near the input lag they state at its native resolution. In fact I even recommended it to somebody who disliked the input lag of their old monitor (Samsung S27A850) which PRAD measured as having 19.3ms input lag and I tested myself a long while back. I’d agree with that figure both based on measurements and what I could clearly feel when using the monitor. And this user was much happier with the 328E1CA in terms of how it felt to use and its latency. It has some definite pixel response time weaknesses, but the signal delay is absolutely fine and many pixel responses are quite decent really.
So you really need to separate out signal delay (the main element you feel) from the equation when thinking about how snappy the monitor will feel in response to your input. And then need to consider its motion performance across a broad range of transitions. You’re putting yourself off monitors that are perfectly respectable for responsiveness, such as the Philips 276E8VJSB (PRAD hasn’t reviewed that, anyway) which as covered in our review offers only minor weaknesses in pixel responsiveness and a low input lag of under 3ms. It’s really no different to the U2312HM in that respect, in fact if anything it’s a bit stronger. Felt latency comparisons with monitors used on other systems can be complicated by the fact the system likely uses a different mouse with a different sensitivity, by the way.
I’ve received some nice positive user feedback on the ASUS PA278QV in terms of viewing comfort. And plenty of people use their monitors for extended periods of time, that’s not unique at the moment at all. I used that monitor extensively during the review and actually found it more comfortable than quite a few others and didn’t feel it accelerated eye fatigue. So whilst I appreciate it’s nicer if a monitor is free from PWM entirely, I think you’re worrying unnecessarily about PWM usage on this one. As covered in the review, this is a very high cycling frequency of ~20kHz. Which is very unlikely to even accelerate eye fatigue any more than simply looking at a PWM-free monitor for a similar length of time. Again, there are many factors to consider when it comes to viewing comfort, 20kHz PWM would be way down my list of concerns.
February 4, 2021 at 6:52 pm #63326tanneYou’re putting yourself off monitors that are perfectly respectable for responsiveness, such as the Philips 276E8VSJB (PRAD hasn’t reviewed that, anyway) which as covered in our review offers only minor weaknesses in pixel responsiveness and a low input lag of under 3ms. It’s really no different to the U2312HM in that respect, in fact if anything it’s a bit stronger.
Ohhh… if I also consider 4k displays again, things are getting complicated 😀
Unfortunately the mentioned Philips doesn’t have a VESA mount (I just realize I have forgotten to mention that requirement in my first post). Another 4k monitor that I’d be interested in is the newly released HP U28. But I haven’t seen any reviews yet. Generally I think those new 28″ formats are a good compromise between 27″ and 31.5″.
I’ve received some nice positive user feedback on the ASUS PA278QV in terms of viewing comfort. And plenty of people use their monitors for extended periods of time, that’s not unique at the moment at all. I used that monitor extensively during the review and actually found it more comfortable than quite a few others and didn’t feel it accelerated eye fatigue. So whilst I appreciate it’s nicer if a monitor is free from PWM entirely, I think you’re worrying unnecessarily about PWM usage on this one.
Okay, that sounds very promising! I think my strategy will be the following: First, I’ll reconsider 4k monitors and check out all available reviews. If I cannot identify a promising model (with VESA compatibility) I will decide between the ASUS PA278QV and the LG 27GN800, which will be a tough matchup since both are equally priced in my country. And while the ASUS seems to be really good all around, the LG has those 144hz.
I’m SO thankful for your quality advice, you really helped me here! Once I’ve bought the monitor I will post again and share my impressions.
February 4, 2021 at 6:56 pm #63329PCM2If you take a look at the recommendations section where the 276E8VJSB is currently listed and other threads discussing that model, you’ll see the Philips 278E1A is listed as an alternative that includes VESA mounting. Plus a different chassis design and some basic integrated speakers. It’s otherwise very similar to the 276E8VJSB and shares the same panel.
February 4, 2021 at 9:15 pm #63330tanneThank you!! 🙂
February 5, 2021 at 8:06 am #63336tanneOh, I think I have found something and thus have one more question :]
When I took a look into the Philips model that you advised, I was also looking for more recent models. And since I prefer 28″ to 27″, I identified the Philips 288E2E, which you has likely uses the the same panel as the ASUS VG289Q (which is marketed as gaming monitor and amazon reviewers also seem to be happy with it in this regard). Also used in the Lenovo 28″ L28u-30 aka L28u-10 4k*. From what I could research all these monitors are rated to be eyefriendly regarding the blue light and stuff.
BUT the important thing is: The Lenovo monitor is able to pull out 75hz at WQHD resolution. This would be the perfect monitor for me! And bonus: it is really cheap as well.
My question now is: Is there any technical specification that I can look out to, to see if a 4k monitor supports 75hz @WQHD?
___
*The only strange thing to me is that the Philips monitors are marketed to have 120% sRGB coverage (“based on CIE1931 standard”) and the Lenovo just with 99%. However, Philips, Asus and Lenovo all state to have the same DCI-P3 coverage of 90%.February 5, 2021 at 8:15 am #63340PCM2Those models are all based on the Innolux M280DCA-E3B AAS, it is indeed the only known panel that fits and it fits them like a glove. I agree on positive feedback for the ASUS model, which will reflect well on the others. Input lag and indeed pixel response tuning is not purely determined by the panel, but the assistive electronics of the monitor. Whilst I’m sure they all have low to reasonable input lag, just because the VG289Q might be strong in that respect doesn’t mean the others quite match that. Sometimes manuals state which resolutions and refresh rates are supported, otherwise you have to rely on websites like ours that specifically tests such things and mentions them in reviews.
The Philips has a gamut volume of around 120% sRGB, others may specify a coverage of 99% sRGB. You can have both at the same time. Meaning there’s slight undercoverage for some shades but definite overcoverage elsewhere. The term “coverage” can be used in either case, but anything above 100% is really refering to gamut volume.
February 5, 2021 at 8:44 pm #63361tanneInput lag and indeed pixel response tuning is not purely determined by the panel, but the assistive electronics of the monitor.
The Philips has a gamut volume of around 120% sRGB, others may specify a coverage of 99% sRGB. You can have both at the same time. Meaning there’s slight undercoverage for some shades but definite overcoverage elsewhere. The term “coverage” can be used in either case, but anything above 100% is really referring to gamut volume.
Thats quality information, I didn’t know that!
Maybe these assistive electronics are also the reason why the ASUS monitor is way pricier than the others that are having the same panel. I will take a look into the ASUS’ manual and see if it also allows for the 75hz resolution and then I might just pick that one!
I’ve read about the Lenovo not looking so great in interpolation mode, I guess that, however, is a pure panel specific thing and will 1:1 translate to the ASUS, right?
Edit: Hmpf.. I checked all the manuals and obviously not even the Lenovo supports 75hz @WQHD. So there’s that..
For reference:
Lenovo manual page 19
Philips manual page 21
ASUS manual page 25February 5, 2021 at 8:49 pm #63369PCM2The assistive electronics, specifically the scaler, are instrumental when it comes to interpolation. So that doesn’t just depend on the panel. And I must say I was quite surprised when you said the Lenovo L28u-10/L28u-30 supported WQHD output at 75Hz. Usually for a ‘4K’ monitor, its maximum refresh rate at native resolution is the same as it is at the 2560 x 1440 and indeed 1920 x 1080 resolution. It could’ve been an exception to the rule there, but seems not.
February 5, 2021 at 9:29 pm #63370tanneThe assistive electronics, specifically the scaler, are instrumental when it comes to interpolation.
Ahh, I see!
Regarding the 75hz:
The Lenovo initially has been marketed as 75hz panel. When they corrected it, it seemed as if these 75hz were only true for resolutions lower than 4k. There is a reddit thread where people discuss that matter and come to said conclusion. Additionally there is also a short review by notebooksbilliger which states exactly this: Lenovo first marketed it as 75hz while it can only handle that @ WQHD.That is why I also started to believe it. But either it is wrong or else just not specified in the manual.
Btw: According to its manual, the Philips can do 75hz @800×600 and 640×480. But that is (at least for me) of no use.
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