New Monitor Panel Discussions

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This topic contains 234 replies, has 19 voices, and was last updated by  Umbral 1 month, 1 week ago.

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  • November 20, 2014 at 9:25 am #33396

    Umbral
    Participant

    I think 21:9 will be limited to IPS. I can’t stop wondering how bad the viewing angles will be on the VA version like Samsung S34E790C. Not to mention it’s curved meaning even less viewing angles if you are not in the center but slight better viewing angles if you are in the center.

    Also the Highest transitions on VA are simple horrible.

    Except Rec 2020 color space the year 2015 looks to become a boring year for LCD panels unless some major improvements will be made.

    November 20, 2014 at 10:11 am #33397

    PCM2
    Keymaster

    I was quite impressed with the Samsung model when it comes to viewing angles. Although my trained eye could identify it as VA pretty much immediately the colour shift wasn’t as pronounced as you might expect from a monitor of the size. And I say pretty much every time I even mention VA technology that they struggle with certain transitions – if that limitation could be overcome then it would be revolutionary.

    I don’t necessarily think 2015 looks to be a boring year for LCDs at all, I simply think people have become spoilt by all of the choice at the end of this year. I can assure you that people have become overwhelmed by the sheer choice of temping monitors at the moment. As for next year, some people are really looking forward to that Samsung (and don’t think for a moment that panel will be restricted just to that monitor, either). And of course Adaptive Sync has a lot of people interested as well. Say nothing about the increasing affordability and range of UHD/’4K’ models and the advent of ‘Windows 10’ – although I think people overestimate the difference that any scaling improvements in the OS could make to legacy applications that don’t support it properly. Oh and the 144Hz AHVA panel has turned a lot of heads as well, same goes for the 23.8″ and 25″ 2560 x 1440 models.

    November 20, 2014 at 10:11 pm #33398

    Umbral
    Participant

    Were these 144Hz AHVA panels really insider information or just speculation ? There is a benefit to 144Hz vs 60Hz even if you don’t reach those fps because you get intermediary frames faster.

    In all possible ways the M270HVN02.3 still has the biggest potential of improvement in VA just like GW2760HS was before it – that brought wider viewing angles (more domains).

    1920 x 1080 being less demanding has the biggest chance of improvement in faster pixel transitions ( response time ) of any VA.

    I also think it will be the last 1080p monitor from BenQ on 27″. Everyone is now on a PPI race and there are good reasons for that but scaling needs urgent fixing.

    From the looks of it i speculate : http://www.panelook.com/M270HVN02.3_AUO_27.0_LCM_parameter_23625.html it may come to market in Q1 2015 with a Quantum Dot film able to reproduce Rec. 2020 color space.

    However if GPUs won’t evolve we will be stuck at 1080p for a very long time. ( and they won’t because below 20nm is very expensive to produce ) . 28nm generation is already 3+ years old !

    http://www.anandtech.com/show/8738/benchmarked-assassins-creed-unity/2 ( unplayable at 1440p & 4K on best GPU )

    November 21, 2014 at 8:38 am #33399

    PCM2
    Keymaster

    No speculation on the M270DAN02.3, it was confirmed by AUO. It’s also in production now – http://www.panelook.com/M270DAN02.3_AUO_27.0_LCM_overview_23628.html.

    The benefit of the elevated refresh rate is quite slim unless you’re pumping out a high frame rate (>60fps). You get lower latency if you are a VSync user but otherwise the experience is much as it is on a 60Hz monitor.

    November 22, 2014 at 10:56 am #33400

    Umbral
    Participant

    Samsung plans to launch FreeSync compatible monitors in March 2015, starting with Samsung UD590 23.6-inch and 28-inch models and UE850 23.6-inch, 27-inch and 31.5-inch models.

    //twitter.com/pcmonitors/status/535479204822155265

    Hopefully we will see Freesync on 1080p monitors too and maybe even on 21:9 format ?

    November 22, 2014 at 2:35 pm #33403

    PCM2
    Keymaster

    Yeah I really hope that Samsung extends Adaptive Sync support beyond just their UHD models. I would also be happier if Nvidia ditched ‘G-SYNC’ so all users could benefit from Adaptive Sync but they’ve invested too much time and money into their proprietary technology to do that. But who knows, perhaps in the future the technologies will merge.

    November 27, 2014 at 2:26 pm #33447

    Umbral
    Participant

    World’s thinnest bezels finally 1mm. IPS.

    16 : 9 ( 23.8″ ) http://www.eizoglobal.com/products/flexscan/ev2450/index.html
    16:10 ( 24.1″ ) http://www.eizoglobal.com/products/flexscan/ev2455/index.html

    What is your opinion on Eizo ? Their monitors are quite expensive. Are they manufactured in Japan and so there are high import taxes in Europe ? Or are they build in China/Taiwan but simply use high quality components. Is Eizo the highest rated monitor company ?

    About these two models maybe they use true 8 bit panels. 16.77 million

    Good article :
    http://www.eizoglobal.com/library/basics/maximum_display_colors/

    They also stress the fact why there is a need for higher LUT even on true 8 bit even for PC normal users.

    November 27, 2014 at 5:02 pm #33449

    PCM2
    Keymaster

    Don’t get tricked by clever marketing. Those monitors use the same panels as the Dell U2414H and U2415, respectively. The smaller one is certainly 6-bit + FRC and the larger one likely uses that as well. Furthermore they do not have a ‘1mm edge’ if you include the all-important panel border. They have a 1mm hard plastic surround, which EIZO are calling the ‘bezel’ in this case, but also have a ~4-5mm panel border.

    EIZO are a very reputable company for their higher-end models (particularly their ‘ColorEdge’ and ‘DuraVision’ range as well as other specialised models). They built up a reputation for outstanding quality control and careful craftsmanship for their higher end models, but unfortunately that doesn’t transfer down to their consumer lineup (FORIS, FlexScan etc.) They outsource to countries outside of Japan to cut manufacturing costs, just like other Japanese display giants such as Panasonic and Sony. That doesn’t necessarily explain the poorer quality control on their cheaper models, but they are just like most other manufacturers in the end. In my opinion they are somewhat overpriced and in some cases have fairly gimmicky features or features that really don’t make much difference to the general consumer.

    December 6, 2014 at 12:57 pm #33527

    Umbral
    Participant

    Thank you. You are right !

    You have good eyesight PCM2 better than 20/20. Can you tell me what is the distance you have to be from a 27″ 1080P in order to stop seeing the pixel grid ?

    I wan to see if i understood something right.

    I also have a top of the line 17″ CRT Samsung SyncMaster 797DF 17″ (16″ visible area)
    On 1024 x 768 resolution it would get 80 DPI ( 0.3175mm Dot Pitch )

    A 27″ visible area with 1080p will get 81.59 DPI ( 0.3113mm Dot Pitch )

    But in the specification the CRT has Horizontal Dot Pitch 0.20mm. The CRT is able to reach : 2048 x 1536 resolution meaning 160 DPI ( 0.1588mm Dot Pitch ).

    Even if i use 1024 x 768, 1600 x 1200 ( 125 DPI, 0.2032mm Dot Pitch), 2048 x 1536 or any other value in between the actual grid is and stays extremely small. (you have to put your eyes near the screen and use a magnifying +4 lens to see it)

    That is why i am thinking that there is a huge difference between 27″ 1080p that can display only 1920 x 1080 at 81.59 DPI ( 0.3113mm Dot Pitch ) and a 17″ (16″ visible area) CRT that actually has 160 DPI ( 0.1588mm Dot Pitch ) or maybe just 0.2mm as stated in manual ?

    I mean the 27″ 1080p pixel grid can be seen just by going very close tot he screen right ?

    Thanks you.

    December 7, 2014 at 1:45 pm #33536

    ghostxix
    Participant

    Hi, didnt want to start new topic so i just ask here if its ok. I am waiting for gtx 960 to build new pc for 1080p gaming, movies, office, adobe flash etc. I was considering Samsung LS24D390/LS24D590 but no vesa or good stand’s just kills the deal for me, the next obvious choice would be Dell U2414H but now with all new dell monitors like S2415H, U2415… can i expect for something like U2415H or U2515H is the new “u2414h” and i should not expect nothing very new in 1080p ips range?

    p.s. sorry for my broken english 😕

    December 7, 2014 at 7:44 pm #33542

    PCM2
    Keymaster

    @ Umbral

    Because CRTs don’t have distinct pixels or indeed a ‘pixel pitch’ (instead having a ‘dot pitch’ and less well-defined ‘dots’) you can’t really compare them to LCD pixel pitches directly. The ‘pixel grid’ can also vary based on screen surface, panel type and other factors. This isn’t something I’ve explored in great detail myself but just something I have casually observed. When using LCDs of a given pixel density I sometimes find the pixel grid (or sometimes only the vertical component of it depending on subpixel layout) more distinct than on others of the same density.

    I don’t currently have any 1920 x 1080 27″ models connected up but I will have a look next week and see what I observe.

    @ ghostxix,

    Those Dell models are all unique, offering different capabilities and in some cases resolutions and aspect ratios. It isn’t the case that the S2415H, U2415 or U2515H have or will replace the U2414H. Instead they will coexist. There aren’t any fundamentally different ~24″ AH-IPS panels in production at the moment so any update (replacement) to the U2414H would be fairly minor. I don’t expect to see such a model until Q3/Q4 next year at the earliest, either. Anything I do say would be pure speculation – at any rate I don’t think you need to worry about the U2414H becoming ‘obsolete’ any time soon or anything like that.

    December 8, 2014 at 11:40 am #33551

    ghostxix
    Participant

    Thanks for your answer PCM2, also i hope you will get your hands on U2415 for review, extra pixels should be useful for desktop usage

    December 18, 2014 at 8:05 pm #34077

    Umbral
    Participant

    Thank you PCM2,

    Can you please tell me what is the threshold when the eye no longer observes motion blur in LCDs because of its own blur ( Persistence of vision ). Is it around 10 ms ? So a display with that value or below would not produce observable blur to the human eye/brain ?

    Thank you.

    December 18, 2014 at 8:19 pm #34078

    PCM2
    Keymaster

    It is around half a frame for a sample and hold display. ~8ms for 60Hz and significantly lower for higher refresh rate displays. See the ‘Sampling method’ section of this article.

    December 19, 2014 at 4:44 pm #34081

    Umbral
    Participant

    Help me understand something.

    A 60Hz display with 8ms refresh rate/input lag would feel like a fluid experience without any motion blur to our eyes and a 120Hz display would need 4ms refresh rate/input lag to be as fluid as the 60Hz 8ms one (motion blur less) ?

    Thank you.

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