[PCM2]

Yes, the UP2718Q is another example, the earliest example of a modern monitor with local dimming. The local dimming solution is really rather poor on that one, much slower than on the PA32UC which doesn’t really set the highest benchmark anyway. The Dell’s local dimming solution is so slow and unreactive that it is completely ineffective if there’s pretty much any motion on the screen with a mixture of darker and lighter elements.

[amf78]

Thanks a million. And to think that I was starting to consider it :))
Almost a year later we’re no better (PA32UC has dropped to a “meagre” 2000 and there are no significant newcomers) so I’m starting to consider a TV. The problem is that TV manufacturers’ idea of FALD is comical… such as some advertising FALD with 12 dimming zones.

[PCM2]

Yes, it’s unfortunate that the PA32UCX offers a nice step up but also comes at a massive premium. I’m hoping InnoLux will bring some competition and hopefully reasonable pricing to the table with their ‘MegaZone’ panels.

[amf78]

Have you had the chance to test the Acer ProDesigner BM270? It’s not cheap (or new), but seems to be the cheapest FALD/miniLED 4k monitor in the 27″-35″ range at least.
I don’t care for games, but I’d be using it for photo editing, CAD, movies as well as everyday use. The only potential problem is that 4K HDR streaming seems to require HDCP 2.2 and fastest HDMI connection (at least on Netflix). Acer does say HDCP is available, but doesn’t mention which version.

[PCM2]

I’ve got no experience with that model or user experiences to share, I’m afraid. It is likely HDCP 2.2 compliant, port controllers with HDCP have supported HDCP 2.2 for a while now.

[mrboat]

Hello, I am a happy owner of an LG 27GL850-B and was thinking on buying a second monitor that shared the same specs and, if possible, improved some of them.
Back then a year ago I remember an Aorus looked better on paper but there was no stock nor reviews back at that time, which made me decide to go with the LG.

I was wondering, are there any new monitors I should consider?
I was thinking on good HDR as something I would be interested on, but it is truly not a must as there is little to no content in PC as far as I know.

I could consider a 4k monitor but right know I already have a 1440p and a small 1080p wacom with me, so I wouldn’t really like to have yet another different resolution to take care of.

[PCM2]

Hi mrboat,

I’ve merged your thread with this one as it’s a suitable place. There are no models that are directly comparable to the 27GL850 that offer a particularly convincing HDR performance on top. There are plenty of threads discussing possible alternatives to the LG if SDR is the focus, for example this one. There are 32″ alternatives such as the Acer XB323U GP we recently reviewed that offer a very good HDR performance – significantly improving upon the LG 27GL850 in terms of HDR. There are also ‘4K’ UHD models of the size offering a decent HDR experience, such as the LG 27GN950. But there are currently no 27″ WQHD alternatives offering a similar experience, there’s a gap in the market there.

P.S. Nothing personal, but please avoid using the term ‘2K’ on these forums. It’s inaccurate and very misleading as it implies the 2560 x 1440 resolution is half of the 3840 x 2160 resolution. Which is incorrect. I criticise manufacturers when they use this in their marketing as well because it encourages use of the phrase. I had to modify the thread title because of this – use QHD, WQHD or 1440p if you want to shorten it.

[mrboat]

Thanks, I’ll have the PS in mind.
Will look into those monitors and threads, thank you.

[Moot]

I am picking up the ASUS PG32UQX through the Amazon link in your article @ $2999.99, can’t wait to get it in hand! It should arrive around the middle of the month.

[PCM2]

Hi Moot,

That’s great! I appreciate the support and hope you enjoy the monitor. I’ve merged your thread with this one as I think it’s a perfect fit, plus I fancy reviving it. The HDR experience should be absolutely amazing. I know it’s one of those things you’d really have to see first hand to appreciate, but I really look forward to your thoughts on the monitor when it arrives. 🙂

[sayhejcu]

I have a question. If there is no blacks and grays on the content, is OLED and VA still superior to IPS when it comes to contrast ?

Theoretical displays:
1: OLED 0 nit blacks, 1000 nit whites
2: IPS 1 nit blacks, 1000 nit whites
Color gamuts and such identical.

Content is HDR and don’t have any blacks all the pixel values are above 1 nits in HDR. No tonemapping applied. Flat EOTF curve from 0 to 1000 even on IPS.

In this scenario OLED have any advantage over IPS or image would look identical ? Just contrast point of view since the rest is identical on these theoretical displays.

I guess it should be identical since the content have 1:1000 contrast ratio, IPS should display it as well as OLED. On local dimming/fald/miniled monitors if the content have 1:1000 contrast ratio per dimming zone it should also work. However miniled and local dimming solutions are very complex. I see reviewers don’t investigate local dimming that much but i’m curious what will be the trend in the upcoming years. Manufacturers are quite serious about local dimming. Not sure if miniled will get cheaper any soon. Like it or not consumers will have to pay for local dimming since most monitors coming out with it these days.

Looking at LG OLED TV’s if they manage to shrink the size i think it will be devastating for all LED market since OLED is cheap too. I’m curious what their(pc monitor manufacturers) stance is. Are they doubling down on miniled or waiting for OLEDs to jump the ship. Miniled r&d must be heavy for gaming monitors so if they push forward OLED may kill all their efforts couple of years later.

[PCM2]

Strong contrast doesn’t just affect very dark grey shades, it affects very dark shades of any colour. Any content set in the real world or anything beyond some cartoon scenes or very specific scenes set in ‘reality’, really, will have plenty of very dark shades mixed in. Even if it’s just small shadow details and suchlike. So there are certainly plenty of chances for stronger contrast advantage to shine – either from OLED, to a lesser extent VA or a very large number of dimming zones. For scenes which happen to only have brighter shades there’s no advantage to having stronger contrast.

And of course a large part of what makes for a spectacular HDR experience is to have some very bright elements mixed in there. The theoretical ‘1000 nit white’ does not exist from an OLED and there’s nothing that comes anywhere close to what the PG32UQX can achieve in OLED form. There are physical limitations which I’m not convinced will be overcome, too. You’d be looking at burn out of the materials (not just burn in). You’d need inorganic alternatives such as self-emissive QD/QDEL before you even think about that sort of brightness. There’s a reason VESA DisplayHDR‘s True Black level only goes up to 500 cd/m² peak.

[sayhejcu]

Thanks for the information. As far as i know, HDR gamma/EOTF curve works with absolute brightness values. So if the pixels have brightness values between 1-1000 nits IPS should display it properly, just like OLED right ? Am i interpreting this right ?

Just checked the Rtings, OLED can already get close to 900 nits and the perception of brightness increase is logarithmic. I’m really curious how enthusiast monitor market gonna be shaped. People most likely prefer 800-900 nit capable OLED monitor for $1-1.5k over ”flawed” $3k miniled. Somethings gonna change soon. If LG come out with more PC and gaming oriented OLEDs i don’t know how miniled will maintain it’s price.

[PCM2]

When it comes to gamma and relative luminance under HDR, things are a bit more complex than that really. However; the peak brightness of OLED is only one aspect. That is only achieved for short pulses and relatively small areas of the screen. They certainly aren’t capable of sustaining anywhere near that for larger areas of the screen or over extended durations. That may be sufficient for some people, and will be fine for some scenes, but again that doesn’t put them on par with the likes of the PG32UQX which can peak >1400 cd/m² and offer sustained 1000 cd/m²+ brightness for large areas of the screen . The experience is very different between the two and I know of a few people who have used them side by side and found the ‘stunning’ nature of the PG32UQX lost on the most capable OLED HDR TVs. Especially in brighter lighting conditions, as contrary to what some believe not everyone likes to sit in a dark room when using HDR. 😉

[sayhejcu]

Thanks. Yes absolutely 🙂 as always it’s a trade off between panel types. I haven’t use any of them yet. Dreaming about it for years though. I got the first one CHG70 back in 2017 i guess ? it’s tonemapping just doesn’t work right. I hope proper HDR will get more accessible. Acer X27 and latest LG C1 48 have the same price in my country right now. I would definitely choose C1 but if it were PG32UQX i would pick the Asus. I hope you will be able to review these two.

[PCM2]

I think it’s worth expanding on things a bit as my earlier reply didn’t really reflect some of my own thoughts from testing a wide range of monitors under HDR. Poor or imprecise luminance control can certainly hamper the shade representation under HDR. Not just of dark or very dark shades, but also medium to dark shades. I’m not an HDR programmer and don’t entirely understand the technicalities of this (I’m more interested in the end result). But I’ve often observed a certain lack of depth to some shades under HDR if the screen lacks local dimming and therefore has a universally high brightness. Or has relatively few dimming zones. The worst offenders are those that stick to a very high brightness and don’t even use Dynamic Contrast of any sort, which can really mess up shade representation. I’ve mentioned this as an observation in a few of my recent reviews actually (e.g. Gigabyte M27Q).

So I certainly see benefit to precise luminance control under HDR beyond just the very dark shades. I’ve also noticed that on HDR models that let you adjust brightness, reducing this makes the image appear much more muted in ways you wouldn’t observe by reducing brightness under SDR. There’s clearly a tight link between luminance levels and how precisely that is controlled – and colour representation. With the former complementing the latter in ways you might not expect. In the case of medium shades appearing to lack depth, it could really be because there are some intricate dark elements (such as shadow details) mixed in there that lack appropriate depth and give the whole ‘object’ a certain lack of definition. And that bright elements in the scene aren’t as bright and brilliant as they should be, so the perceived contrast between those bright shades and the medium/dark shades just isn’t there. The shade combinations are extremely intricate in most scenes and the absolute representation of one shade in isolation isn’t the end of the story. And for the reduction in brightness having unforeseen consequences I believe part of that is really that things are optimally tuned for maximum brightness and forcefully reducing that messes up that ‘fine balance’.

[sayhejcu]

I understand you. I’ve used LG 27GL850 and it actually had better HDR than CHG70 because of the proper tonemapping however just like you described it lacked that intricate dark shade depth. Like there is a glare where you expect dark shade depth even though i’m in a dim room with a matte monitor. Also ips glow was just unbearable without local dimming at max brightness. Hud elements on corners was drowned by ips glow which wasn’t issue in SDR.

HDR is an absolute standard unlike SDR which has relative gamma. So brightness change probably skews the HDR algorithm. Manufacturer probably tunes HDR to max brightness capability of the screen.

27GN950:

Acer X27

What i understand is just because the panel has high brightness capabilities, it doesn’t mean average picture will be bright. Peak brightness is preserved for highlights but not just because bright highlights are cool, high brightness gives the ability to distinguish the highlight shades and detail impressively.

The following is taken directly from the ST2084 (PQ EOTF) specification.

This EOTF (ST2084) is intended to enable the creation of video images with an increased luminance range; not for creation of video images with overall higher luminance levels. For consistency of presentation across devices with different output brightness, average picture levels in content would likely remain similar to current luminance levels; i.e. mid-range scene exposures would produce currently expected luminance levels appropriate to video or cinema.

The PQ based ST2084 HDR specification originally defined expected reference white (nominal diffuse white) as being around 100 nits, which is basically the same as for SDR (Standard Dynamic Range) displays, as specified for mastering (grading) grade-1 applications. With PQ HDR, brightness above 100 nits was expected to be used for spectral highlight detail only. This meant that the Average Picture Level (APL) of a PQ HDR display would not be significantly different to a SDR display for most imagery.

However, subsequent evaluation of PQ based HDR imagery showed a better relative image was attained with a diffuse white around 200 nits. This has since been adopted by the ITU’s BT.2408 specification (actually 203 nits), which is 58% of the full PQ signal (input) level.

[Red_Negan]

This question interest me because many places like reddit seem to have the idea that if they don’t view a lot of dark scenes that contrast isn’t important. Just to back up the excellent point already posted with some more data. Contrast is in reality, by definition is the differences between the absolute darkest black and the brightest white but what that actually affects is so much more than it may seem.

Contrast helps dynamic range, gives depth to the image, it will appear fuller, more popping, realistic. IPS regardless if it’s a monitor, TV, will look a bit flat compared to VA or OLED and needs backlight processing, even edge lit can make a somewhat of a difference.

To answer your question about if there’s no blacks or greys, it’s tough to answer because what is the content? most images have a lot going on even if they don’t appear to have much dark in them. Lets say you’re looking at reds, blues, I do tend to see a difference but the room would have to be a certain level. IPS panels don’t seal well, at all I like to describe it like this, if you draw art on a clear glass background, you get am image that lets in a lot of light and end up with an image which lacks depth due to this. If you draw an image on say something more dense you get a more solid image.

Contrast ratio is the capability of the panel so assuming there’s no backlight processing to aid black levels in IPS and VA, all do have some character that are able to be told apart in the right environment. OLEDs work with per pixel illumination, they do have their own unique appearance. I tend to find OLEDs regardless of dE to have this almost lush appearance, like the display has a liquidity to it where as IPS type displays for example have a lot of backlight visibility and the image looks a bit glassy to me, like there’s a sheen. VA panels can look fairly lush and full depending on contrast ratio, dark uniformity etc due to better sealing.

Your comment about OLEDs taking over one day basically shaking up the market, that’s def the general thought process. I own a few OLEDs and have done since the original TV’s and before that was a huge plasma fan but I really can’t say I share the same excitement as many other others for OLED monitors. Don’t get me wrong having per pixel illumination is a massive strength and light sources in dark scenes for example like space scenes look glorious and oh so clean but I just don’t find it a great technology for desktop use.

Everyone knows about pixel wear I won’t mention that but as a per pixel basis, if one wants to keep their monitor calibrated, you’ll be returning to the display more often than not to calibrate it. Pixels are more rapid and act as mentioned on an individual basis which gives them the chance to get stuck occasionally, on a TV you sit further back, not a big deal; on a desktop? it can look nasty. Grey banding is a thing, it doesn’t look good, my G7 has better grey uniformity as a whole over all the OLEDs we have at work and at home and white uniformity is a mixed back. I still think VA should be more heavily focused than OLED, you can get blacks pretty close to OLED levels although OLED is way cleaner here obviously. With the G9 and G7 being the fastest 1440p displays we have, we’re not limited to speeds anymore I think a few tweaks could make the G7 a lot more appealing but I’m prob in the minority. I’m a big fan of VA tech I just think there’s more to push out of it but that’s a topic for another post.

I’d be more excited for microLED but realistically monitors won’t see that for some time and pricing will be out of this world but we’ll see.

[PCM2]

Our review of the ASUS PG32UQX is now live. I found this model to offer a very enjoyable HDR experience, quite a leap from any other model I’ve reviewed under HDR. I also found the ‘Variable Backlight’ feature to be very useful for SDR, although it was under HDR where it was really brought to life. The colour gamut combined with effective local dimming provided a definite depth to many shades that’s severely lacking by most HDR implementations.

[PCM2]

Somebody over on our YouTube channel asked what I thought about the Samsung Odyssey Neo G9 in comparison to the ASUS PG32UQX when it came to HDR capability. This was my response, which I feel it’s worth sharing here:

“Apples to oranges. One thing I particularly liked about the PG32UQX was the strong peak AND sustained luminance. It was nice to use for HDR purposes in a bright room, with plenty of pop. I also liked the excellent colour gamut, with good encroachment on Rec. 2020 as desirable for HDR. The Odyssey G9 Neo doesn’t deliver that. They didn’t go for VESA DisplayHDR 1400 certification because it would’ve failed this on account of inadequate luminance capability. So they made up their own ‘HDR 2000’ level. And the colour gamut is far more restrictive, plus there are saturation losses peripherally due to the poorer colour consistency of the VA panel. BUT – the contrast with those 2048 dimming zones and natively strong VA performance there is quite something by itself. And it can still offer nice bright flashes that will catch the eye. Just a bit of a different experience.”

[Author]

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