December 13, 2017 at 12:16 pm #46009
What happened to that promised donation, then? Just a quick observation regarding the ‘latency’. The pixel response times are clearly faster on TN models. That shouldn’t come as a surprise. You can’t SHOW felt latency on a video and it is a very misleading and poor way to accurately show visual differences. I think you’re trying to be far too objective in an unscientific way and are making your task more complicated than it needs to be. If you prefer one monitor over the other then keep it and try to enjoy it. You don’t need to try justifying exactly why you prefer it, just accept that you do and move on.December 13, 2017 at 12:18 pm #46010
… done 😉
What do you think of those results?
Today I will also receive the ASUS VC279H which, again, I will compare with the XB272.
To your observation: I’m trying to find a compromise between better colors and respond time for playing with PC and PS4, as you already know. So I’m asking which and how far a monitor is better than another in regards to this point. I have no prejudice in my approach; for I’m practical-rational. I thought that a IPS or WQHD panel were much better than a TN or Full-HD panel because “everyone says that”, but I now can honestly barely see a difference between the XB271HU (27′ IPS – WQHD) and now the XB272 (27′ TN – Full-HD). IF there is a difference in regards to the colors, than this is MAYBE SOMETIME in favor of the XB271HU (or S27E390H because this is darker), but for me this is in the praxis negligible since the XB272 is / feels subjectively faster then the XB271HU (and much faster than the S27E390H), is not yellowish, and I also can reach more FPS and I can use it for the PS4 not using another specifically monitor. For information: on the XB272 there is a specifically gamma option which makes the colors for me be much better: “gaming” which I selected instead of “2.2” or “2.5”.
Don’t know: Can a TN panel really reach a color quality as the IPS/PLS panel or I’m doing something wrong? I’m a bit skeptical about those results.
I will update this post later after I tried the VC279H.December 13, 2017 at 12:24 pm #46011
Appreciated ;). I edited my post before that but I have time to provide just a few further thoughts at the moment. Your feedback is appreciated, even if I don’t quite agree with your approach. There’s nothing wrong with a subjective assessment, but I want everybody reading this to be completely clear – you can not accurately judge a monitor’s performance based on photos or videos. The end result depends on far too many things, including the camera, software processing and ultimately your own monitor used to view the content.
If you really want to be objective and add weight to your subjective findings, I suggest buying a colorimeter and hooking the screen up to a PC. You’ll likely discover that the monitors you considered “washed out” are actually giving a more accurate shade representation overall. And you subjectively prefer the oversaturated shades and overblown gamma of the TN model. And it’s fine if you do, but I don’t want others to read this and think that the models you dismissed as “dull” are inferior on a technical level or to the trained eye. The fact you preferred setting gamma to “gaming” adds credence to that theory.December 13, 2017 at 4:14 pm #46016
I received the VC279H and comparing this to the XB272 I noticed that the VC279H is so dark that many details just get lost; I noticed this on the E390H too! I tried to change the brightness also in the Nvidia panel but it was not better / it was worst. I also noticed that the XB272 shows more “colors shades” – again, also comparing this to the E390H. On the other hand, the VC279H is subjectively very fast (I mean: good input lag) – definitely faster (= better input lag) than the E390H!
If you are interested, here is a review of the XB252 (25′ version of the XB272): http://www.prad.de/new/monitore/test/2017/test-acer-xb252qbmiprzx.html
Now, I just should think about what to do:
– Give the XB271HU another chance, maybe with another panel which is not yellowish? I would like to understand, how it should be in regards to the panel “better” than the XB272 and how “better” is WQHD vs Full-HD. Maybe can someone answer this last question about the resolution?
– Keep the XB272?
– Wait for the Z271UV (27′ WQHD TN + Quantum Dot)?
Oh lord 🙁December 13, 2017 at 4:47 pm #46017
Sorry to be rude and butt in in this thread, but I have been lurking here and on a few other threads with interest. I’m a keen photographer and work at a design firm as a day job. But my son is into console gaming so I’m looking for inspiration.
As somebody who is into colours looking “proper” in a big way, I have been sitting here cringing at some of what I’ve been reading. I think PCM has been too polite in saying you prefer colours to be represented a certain way. In my world colours are either “right” or they are “wrong”. The question was asked before about whether TN monitors could ever match the colour quality of IPS monitors. The firm answer to that is NO. And I speak from torturous experience. Just open paint and fullscreen it with a colour of your choice (some show this better than others). Or go to http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/viewing_angle.php#angle_purple for some examples. On TN models the shades change massively at the top compared to bottom of the screen and also if you move your head. For those who live for accurate colours it’s a nightmare. You can’t calibrate your way out of it as well.
But I am going off on a tangent there. It sounds like you enjoy colours to look heavily saturated and… Improper. You see, my son is a bit like this. He loves gaming on some of my Adobe gamut monitors because they make everything look like a cartoon. Areas of grass look like they’re irradiated, people look badly sunburnt and the sky looks simply unreal. Some of the TN monitors I’ve used (and some IPS monitors) have been so badly calibrated that they sort of have a similar thing going on. But it’s even worse because the shades are all crammed up into a small gamut. PCM explains this VERY well in his reviews of those sorts of monitors. See https://pcmonitors.info/reviews/dell-up2716d/ for example. I do get this to an extent, the liking of the more saturated and “popping” shades in games. But if you are after that kind of look I would definitely recommend a monitor with a good colour gamut, not one that looks that way just because it has crud calibration.December 13, 2017 at 6:09 pm #46018
I appreciate your input, Demonize. It isn’t rude at all – discussion is exactly what the ‘discussion forum’ is for. 😀
I agree with everything you’ve said, as well. So coming back to phie and his situation… According to the PRAD review of the VC279H, the gamma handling is absolutely rubbish. That’s why you’re seeing problems with apparent shade variety and things looking ‘too dark’. The best way of dealing with that would be a colorimeter, but if you need to just make tweaks in the Nvidia Control Panel then increase the gamma value (which will decrease actual average gamma). Do not touch the digital brightness slider, that just messes up contrast. With regards to responsiveness, I’ve received enough feedback on that to suggest that it’s really very well tuned in terms of pixel overdrive. The S24E390HL, by comparison, has some ‘slacker’ transitions where some darker shades are involved. The VC279H isn’t perfect and isn’t up to TN levels, but it seems to handle darker transitions nicely and does so without adding noticeable overshoot. So that’s good. As for signal delay, it’s negligible on the S24E390HL so that aspect of input lag is very unlikely to be a differentiator between that model and the VC279H. Note that a lower pixel density can affect perceived latency, because a given input translates to a larger physical movement on the screen.
As I’ve said before and to echo what Demonize has said, I absolutely agree that a wide colour gamut should be a key consideration for you. So the Z271UV could be an interesting choice for sure. With respect to WQHD vs. Full HD, I don’t understand the logic of asking that question given that you’ve seen and experienced both options yourself.December 14, 2017 at 6:35 am #46020
Thank you for the explanations!
As PCM2 pointed it: you are not rude at all :).
You (PCM2 and Demonize) convinced me about the problems with the TN panel compared to the IPS panel: I notice a very bad angle view on the screen as the image became immediately yellow if I don’t look the screen straight and I noticed a similarly problem at the top and the bottom of the screen; further, yesterday I played a game for a long session (which I did not tested before) and I gradual noticed that something in the image was “wrong” and I really did not liked it: it was the oversaturated image!
I bought a second exemplar of the XB271HU on Amazon (yep, through your link, PCM2 😉 ) and I will definitely keep this monitor for PC gaming and the E390 for the ps4.December 14, 2017 at 7:01 am #46021
Excellent, I’m glad we could help. And your continued support is very much appreciated. 🙂December 14, 2017 at 7:09 am #46022
You’re welcome! …and sorry if I was so insistent and had so much questions, it is just that I wanted self to comprehend the facts.December 16, 2017 at 3:03 pm #46075
Do you have any input on the RGB Full/Limited issue on the Xbox One?
I found 2 different PC calibrated settings for the Asus and picked my preferences but changing the Xbox to RGB PC/Full makes it so the in built calibration on contrast doesn’t work, it works on limited but the Asus only works in Full.
The default contrast on the Asus is 80 and the calibrations both tweak it down to 69-73 (But this is obviously calibrated on a PC), but on the Xbox this still looks off and I’ve got it way lower.
Reading through many threads its the consensus that PC RGB on Xbox is broken and just avoid it and use limited, which you can’t if you’re using a monitor that only outputs full. Some say the Xbox runs a completely cocked up gamma curve standard and others say the RGB issue is fixed now.
These websites say the calibrated settings should run close to correct on console also, but if the gamma curve and black/white levels go haywire when using Full on the Xbox this isn’t going to be the case! lolDecember 16, 2017 at 3:46 pm #46076
I’m afraid I can’t advise on that since I don’t have experience in that area. The Xbox One implentation is messed up (although correct on the Xbox One X from what I understand), there’s little you can do about that.December 20, 2017 at 8:47 am #46103
I’ve been doing a bit more research. It seems that the LG 27UD68 comes highly recommended. I am currently using a Samsung S27C750P for console gaming with a PS4 Pro and Xbox One S, soon to be X. Would the LG be a noticeable upgrade? Would the 4K resolution be noticeable at that size? Are the colors the same or less or more vibrant? Any issues with graininess from the coating on the LG panel? Thanks.December 20, 2017 at 10:04 am #46104
I’ve also been looking at upgrading my 1080p 27inch LG monitor for a while now and haven’t considered anything else other than a 4K LG one.
Either way would like to hear exactly how LG’s 4K monitors stand up.December 20, 2017 at 12:21 pm #46107
A friendly heads-up to both of you. 2018 is just around the corner and LG will be bolstering their UHD lineup. CES in January might provide some insights, but I’m not sure if all of their proposed models will be on display there. They will be adding a degree of HDR support to some models, although it remains to be seen how far they will go to achieve this. I am aware of what they dub ‘Nano IPS’ which is basically the use of Quantum Dots to enhance the colour gamut – much as Samsung has done with their recent HDR-capable screens. So even if they are able to provide a wider colour gamut that can be appropriately mapped for games, that’ll be a nice thing. I would expect to see FreeSync via HDMI 2.0 as well. Even if nothing floats either of your boats with the new models, it should at least mean a decrease in price for the existing models. I wouldn’t rule out some interesting HDR and FreeSync via HDMI capable models from other manufacturers next year, either.
With respect to UHD on a ~27″ screen, it most certainly is beneficial. I’d be surprised if you hadn’t read our article on that by now, Bryson? The points are reinforced in our reviews of UHD models of that sort of size, as per the ‘further reading’ section of that article. The LG will provide quite a different experience to the Samsung S27C750P; you’re comparing apples and oranges. I’d advise reading our review of the ViewSonic VP2780-4K, which uses a similar panel to the LG and re-visiting our review of the S27C750P. It covers aspects such as colour reproduction and screen surface in detail. In summary, you can expect the LG to provide superior colour vibrancy (better consistency and a better colour gamut), although the screen surface is slightly grainier than on the Samsung. It’s not horrendous by any stretch of the imagination, but you may notice it if it’s something you’re sensitive to.
Edit: One of the new models is the 32UK950. 98% DCI-P3 colour gamut and mention of ‘HDR600’, so possibly VESA’s ‘DisplayHDR 600’ which requires local dimming of some sort or possibly LG doing some clever marketing.December 20, 2017 at 3:31 pm #46108
The way it stands at the moment, if I was in the market for an X I would just get a low input lag 4K HDR TV.
HDR is apparently a stand out feature (I’ve never seen HDR in person myself) and 4K monitors with HDR are £1000’s, as said above Freesync over HDMI isn’t available yet, and who knows the prices of the monitors with it.
I prefer playing on a monitor for faster response times and better input lag but consoles really are made to play on a TV.December 20, 2017 at 3:41 pm #46109
For users considering 27 – 32″ models, though, the TV market is far less appealing. And the large models with ‘proper’ HDR implementations (FALD or OLED) have a price tag to reflect this. Just like the more expensive monitors with HDR. Not all HDR-capable models are particularly expensive and I suspect LGs upcoming models will include cheaper options. As I suggested above, even proper mapping of a wider colour gamut can be expected, without significant cost implications.
You’d also have to forget FreeSync on the vast majority of TVs and this is a nice bonus that some monitors provide. FreeSync over HDMI simply requires newer port controllers and scaling electronics. It doesn’t add cost and is common on many recent FreeSync models of various cost.January 19, 2018 at 6:51 am #46501
The result is that the XB271HU has the better image quality (crisper, better contrast, more pop) than the Dell and the Samsung and is NOT blur at all as it should be; on the contrary: the Acer shows more details (= is sharper) than both monitors: How is this possible!? Did Sony added the 1440p support for the PS4 and we don’t know that?
I compared the same monitors on the PC with Titanfall 2 and The Division and here I can clearly see that the Acer shows a blur image at 1080p compared to the Dell and the Samsung.
By the way: because I was not satisfied with the Samsung anymore – after the Acer – I did the Dell a chance again. I bought this another time and: It has NO pixel inversion as the previous model. It has for me an overall better image quality (…) than the Samsung and the response time is excellent! Maybe you should consider the Dell as console gaming monitor.January 19, 2018 at 7:49 am #46502
I’ve heard other users suggest that 2560 x 1440 is in fact supported on the PS4 Pro on some titles, yes.January 19, 2018 at 7:51 am #46503January 19, 2018 at 7:54 am #46504
Those posts are too old, they could well have added support retrospectively.
Oh and by the way, the recommendations section is being revamped at the moment. So may include the Dell S18H models which I have used at IFA and have received some good user feedback for. The XB271HU seems to outclass the currently recommended AOC in terms of price and availability, too, so that’ll be changed shortly.
And how do you find the screen surface on the Dell?
Edit: Should never post here when I’ve first woken up… You mentioned you’re using a splitter with a native Full HD screen, so it will of course be running at 1920 1080. It might well be that you simply preferred the ‘fake’ interpolated and slightly oversharpened image. Personal preferences coming into play there.
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