[luisdent]

The fact that I have been in fact reading and researching VA as you said, and have the samsung in my amazon cart, and the fact the you mention it now makes me think that is probably the monitor for me. 🙂 hit every main mark. My biggest questions now would be how close would the black level compare to a plasma tv? Are they not similar? Brighter or darker? It’s very hard to find info on plasma nowadays.

I can live with imperfect color if it is one of the better monitors in the VA category, but I’m most worried about the smoothness and darkness of the screen now. My plasma is smooth to my eyes I see a slight difference in the asus possibly being smoother, but it’s so hard for me to tell because all else looks inferior.

I assume the samsung is smoother still than my plasma, but I know back when I bought my plasma that one reason was that it didn’t suffer from the general ghosting issues of lcd at the time. I assume my plasma is 60hz and the Samsung is higher. So other than color, the overall visual quality should be at least as good? Just not sure what to expect from the black levels…I have no way to try anything in person where I live. :-/

[PCM2]

These answers will be best answered through experience. You’re backed up by a very good returns policy should you need it. To address your questions with some theory. Plasma TVs typically have a static contrast of ~4000:1, the C27HG70 is lower at ~2000:1 – 3000:1 depending on settings. It’s enhanced in some scenarios using local dimming, as per the review. Plus you’ve got ‘VA glow’ to contend with. It’s therefore somewhat weaker than a plasma, but not miles away and closer than other LCD panel types.

You’ll benefit from the high refresh rate of the Samsung, provided frame rate is also high. Some plasmas are impulse-type which can help motion performance at the expense of eye comfort, whereas the Samsung under its normal flicker-free operation is sample and hold. Refer to this if you’re unfamiliar with such terms (wouldn’t blame you if you are – they’re not commonly used). The Samsung also has a strobe backlight setting which makes it act as an impulse-type display. There are weaknesses in pixel responsiveness as covered in the review – technically plasma doesn’t have this kind of thing, but they have other motion-related imperfections and artifacts and it’s difficult to compare directly.

[luisdent]

I understand. I will probably buy it soon and try it out. I didn’t use your link yet, but I definitely will when I purchase something. I read the notes and appreciate the help and have no problem contributing to the aid.

One last question for now. I’ve been asking for something below $450. Do any if these issues go away or the quality become substantially better at a higher price. Say $600 or $800? Or perhaps at 32″ vs 27″ just curious if it would ve worth saving more and waiting.

I’m very content using my pc on my tv for a while. I just don’t trust the burn in using a pc on a plasma. I’ve never got actual burn in, but things do stay on the screen for a bit if left on a menu or something, and if I want to use windows I don’t want toolbars and such permanently on my plasma. I also want the convenience of my desk vs. a couch for some games with keyboard and mouse. So if money and time can noticeably darken my black level it might be worth it. 🙂

[PCM2]

Raising your budget to that level wouldn’t really help much. You could get a monitor with somewhat higher contrast than the Samsung if you stick to a 60Hz refresh rate, but not a substantial difference. For that you’d really need to be looking at a much more expensive model with a very complex FALD (Full Array Local Dimming) backlight solution. Something like the Acer X35 or ASUS PA32UCX. So in a completely different price league unfortunately.

[luisdent]

Wow. Yeah. That’s not happening.:-P

Now I’m curious what 60hz monitor gives slightly more contrast? I checked and apparently my asus is 60hz. As is my plasma. So apparently that doesnt bother me. Although I guess I have nothing to compare it with. It seem I may value image quality over image performance. So long as there is no input lag from the controller to the game movement…

[PCM2]

The 31.5″ flat VA models with 3840 x 2160 (‘4K’ UHD) resolution offer stronger contrast. A ‘higher end’ example of such a model which also offers decent HDR support is the ASUS CG32UQ. Static contrast for regular (SDR) content is ~3400 – 4000:1 so close to your typical plasma TV. The colour consistency isn’t as good as the Samsung but would be better (and certainly richer) than your ASUS TN. Pixel responsiveness isn’t amazing, even for a 60Hz monitor where the requirements aren’t as tight, but isn’t terrible either. There are cheaper models using the same CELL (panel minus backlight) without the same level of HDR support. They would offer similar image characteristics aside from that, including contrast. The Samsung U32J590 and LG 32UD60 are examples.

[luisdent]

Those look decent, but I’d like to actually stay away from 4k for now. My pc is built for gaming at 1080 to 1440. It can run 4k no problem, but I’d like to keep the framerate above 40fps minimum if possible. Preferable 60fps average.

Those cost more a d I’d feel the need to get a new graphics card, but I just bought my system. Haha. So I’ll stick with 1440. I’m absolutely not opposed to 1080p monitors if that changes your recommendation, I just figured 1440p was the sweet spot for my gaming setup. But I’d rather take noticeable visual quality of a monitor over slightly higher resolution. All things being equal I’d rather have 1440p.

[luisdent]

Um curious about this monitor: AOC CQ27G1

It gets great reviews elsewhere and it’s very affordable. Stating it has deep VA blacks and very good color and motion with no flicker.

I can’t find a review on it here though. Have you by chance seen that midel?

[luisdent]

Sorry for multiple posts, but I wanted to say that I hooked up my hp e222. I’m blown away by two things. First, it makes my asus look like garbage in black level quality. It is not super dark blacks, but it really isn’t “that” far off from my plasma. And it has an IPS screen. Motion looks fine. I’m perfectly happy with the quality of motion coming from it. I’d even say I’m fairly happy with the black level, except that the monitor simply looks dull. The colors don’t look bad on warm or custom tweaked, but at full contrast even, the brights don’t really pop much at all.

I will use this for now, but I thought maybe that would be a good reference point. Perhaps a really good IPS is doable, or if the VA are even darker than the hp e222 with brighter brights, that sounds awesome, I’m just wary of any motion related loss in detail. Do you have any comment on that?

[PCM2]

As I said earlier, the 27″ 2560 x 1440 144H VA options are all characterstically very similar. That includes the AOC CQ27G1, which is similar to the AOC AG273QCX and by extension the Samsung as it uses the same CELL as those. But is not available here in the UK (hence no review – and I haven’t used it). They’re also due to release the follow-ups very shortly, by the way. Uses a different (more steeply curved) CELL and there’s a flat variant in the works. But I don’t expect massive differences in terms of contrast or colour reproduction.

The problem with using an HP e222 as a reference is it’s a relativley small IPS screen, so from a normal viewing position ‘IPS glow’ is much less of an issue. You’d have to see some monitors for yourself and really see a 27″ IPS-type model for a better reference. Either way, the VA models offer stronger contrast. But even then there is ‘VA glow’ which becomes more pronounced as screens get larger. Unless you increase viewing distance relative to that. Best to just see for yourself rather than overthink these things, though.

[uncia]

I’ve had a similar journey in searching for a monitor. I’m not sure whether there is a perfect answer. Though I will admit that the upcoming 48-inch LG OLED looks better than just about everything out there. It has something around 93 DPI, if it’s actually 48-inches diagonal and not a meaningless measurement as sometimes is the case. I know a lot of people worry about burn-in, but the burn-in on my 6-year-old cellphone with an AMOLED display is minor, and I’ve used the heck out of that thing. I don’t think that with LG’s tinkering to prevent this that it’s as much of a concern as some might. I’d also be willing to test it out. Yet 48-inches is still too big for my uses.

Thus, I’ve been considering the AOC AG273QX because the thing I didn’t like about the curved predecessor was the panel used with the pixel layout. I want to see if the new flat panel has a better layout without subpixels having split illumination. The curved 1440p displays drive me crazy for this reason. I find 4K too high of a resolution for most daily tasks and more than my computer could handle anyway. So there’s that sweet spot.

I’m probably going to test out the LG-27GL850. It has lower contrast than a lot of people expect, but most buyers find it’s more than sufficient. I also don’t like the idea of black crush. I’d rather have less contrast with good colour reproduction, but I do graphic design and photography. This use case makes it difficult to find a perfect product. Many people are gamers first looking for the perfect gaming monitor. This is of secondary interest to me. Yet I want a high refresh rate due to daily use and comfort. The pixel responsiveness of VA doesn’t seem as much of an improvement over a 60Hz TN to make it worthwhile, but perhaps the AOC AG273QX with its 165Hz refresh rate will do better? I understand this is all subjective. I certainly liked the contrast of VA more than the IPS monitor I tested, or those I use at work.

I’ll report back on what I end up with and my thoughts. If the AOC AG273QX were available in the U.S., I’d try them both, unless the first one I tried was good enough to keep. I don’t really consider it good practice to buy both, test them out, and send back the one I like less. Amazon’s return policy is good, but someday they may stop honoring it if they notice people are doing this. It’s just a thought. I know it’s pretty common practice these days.

[PCM2]

Good input again there, uncia – thanks for sharing! It seems the AG273QX still isn’t listed on the AOC US website, strongly suggesting it won’t be released in North America. But the soon to be released Q27G2U should be available in the US and it’s using the same panel.

[luisdent]

I was seriously set on buying the Samsung, and I know I can always return it, but I don’t want to return multiple monitors just to try them if I can avoid it as best as possible. Then I watched your video review. And the black/purple smearing is hard to swallow.

Those are the sort of things that bug me. I expect consistency, and then I’ll walk into an dark area of a game and that will probably stand out like a sore thumb. Maybe I’m wrong, but if you told me it was rare i would probably be ok, but inlay many games with a lot of dark areas and objects. The first game i played on my new system was Obduction, and the first thing i noticed about the asus was how horribly bad the caves looked with their dark walls. I’m assuming all of those dark shadows would have purple trails and smearing on the samsung. :-/

Maybe I’m being too critical, and I will have to try something sooner or later. But I wonder if I’m being too critical about IPS screens too. If there is more consisteny in an IPS, could any of them approach at least close to VA black levels? My HP E222 isn’t plasma level black, but it isn’t too far off. Would a better IPS with higher contrast give the impression of darker blacks? If I illuminate behind the monitor with a really subtle glow on the wall would that help increase the impression as well?

I’m really torn. Maybe if I can find an IPS for $450 I could buy them both on amazon and just return the one I like less?

What would be the best IPS equivelant at that range?

I would like to add one more thing. I initially wasn’t expecting to use the same monitor for this, as I assumed gaming and photography demanded different types of displays. However, I’m a photographer, and I’ve been fairly happy with my mac laptop display, but I want a bigger display to edit photos on. Is it unreasonable to expect to edit photos seriously on a VA? Is there a monitor that is great for games in IPS panel type, that excels for photography that might push me that direction?

[PCM2]

That’s why I said it’s a compromise one way or the other. No IPS-type model comes close to the contrast levels of even a fairly mediocre VA model for contrast – unless they have a fancy local dimming solution. You aren’t going to escape ‘IPS glow’, especially not on current 27″ screens, unless you sit far enough back and keep nice and central relative to the screen. You can certainly improve perceived contrast by sitting in a suitably well-lit room or ensuring you have a light source directly behind the monitor (a ‘bias light’). I know not everyone likes doing this and it isn’t always practical. It also depends on how tolerant you are of low brightness levels, because naturally if you have your monitor set to a lower brightness then black depth is improved and ‘IPS glow’ is diminished.

But there’s really no substitute for IPS-type models when it comes to ‘serious photo editing’. You can calibrate VA models to show you wonderfully accurate colours centrally. But the perceived gamma and saturation shifts alter how this shade is perceived depending on which section of the screen you’re observing. This is explored in detail in our reviews and summarised in threads and articles I’ve already linked to, there’s really nothing more to say in that respect. Some of the strongest IPS-type models for contrast and which offer good responsiveness for gaming use 144Hz+ Innolux panels.

[luisdent]

Great news, I’ve been using a 4k samsung at work. I figured I’d run it through some tests. I’ve only ever seen spreadsheets on it. Turns out it handles darks extremely well. Color is great, 32″, 4k, 144hz. Overall, very good. This is the monitor I mentioned had some weird vertical line glitches with bright areas against a mid tone background if that makes sense. Not sure what that is about.

Anyhow, it turns out it is a VA panel. Samsung U32J590. So at least now I have seen a VA, and I can say I’m pleased with the contrast. Very plasma-like. I can’t test games on it, but I watched some 4k youtube videos, and it looks pretty good to me. The colors and white balance aren’t perfect, but I could probably live with it for gaming. I’m starting to think I should get a samsung VA for games and get a benq sw2700pt later on for photo editing and just use dual monitors. That monitor seems to review very well in accuracy and even contrast. But seems like it’s on the lower end of gaming quality, although lag and whatnot are low.

I’ll keep researching and hopefully get something soon. I wish there was a way for me to test the black motion issue to show in your video review on my work monitor… is there a video or something you could link to that would make that apparent on my monitor if it exhibits that? The issue where the horse had purple fringing when it moved…

[PCM2]

Excellent, that’s one of the VA models with stronger contrast using the 31.5″ Innolux panel that I thought you might like. So stronger contrast than the C27HG70, but not in a completely different league or anything. The U32J590 is a 60Hz monitor by the way, you incorrectly listed “144Hz” in your post.

I’ve taken a few screenshots from Battlefield V, showing elements which I usually use in videos to showcase some of the weaker pixel transitions on monitors. VA models usually struggle with these, some are of naturally worse than others. These transitions are similar to the horse (which is from a scene in Battlefield 1) and would showcase some similar weaknesses. You can move them around the screen (on the U32J590) from left to right, circular motions etc. and they should hopefully highlight some of the slower pixel transitions. It won’t be directly comparable to the full screen motion and various angles which the videos we use test. They show a wider variety of shades due to subtle alterations from lighting changes etc. But these should still help highlight some weaknesses. The footer of our website if you scroll up and down or move the window around often shows some weaknesses with VA models as well. The mesh pattern and search box and the lighter text against the darker background, for example. If you ‘notice’ these weaknesses on the desktop and when moving content around, it doesn’t necessarily mean you’d notice the weaknesses so readily when absorbed in a game.

BFV Boats
BFV Roof
BFV Flag

[luisdent]

Awesome thanks. For the record, I got the 144hz from the monitor itself. It is listed on the information menu with the model number in the OSD… ?

[PCM2]

Must be simply a misreport/bug. If you go into the graphics driver or Windows, it’s surely listed as 3840 x 2160 @ 60Hz?

[luisdent]

Honestly I don’t really notice much on the images being moved around. I notice it more draggin the browser window up and down at a medium slow speed. The black header leaves some funky trails a bit. But I common use I’m guessing it wouldn’t bother me too much. The images seemed decent moving around. Just the slightest motion blur I would have though was just lor refresh rate. But I guess it’s the black pixel response time. Not bad at all from these minor tests.

Im just starting to get excited, but you said the c27hg70 isn’t as good contrast? I would have thought the smaller panel should be better in that way being smaller? Now that I have the U32J590 in my possession and can say I think I’d be pretty happy with it (barring unexpected changes when actually gaming), can you compare it with the 27″?

I’d just go out and buy the 32″, but the 27 is 1440p and will run a host of games at much better performance…

[luisdent]

You are correct. 59hz. And I think I misread the OSD. It says “display port, 3840×2160, 133.3khz, 60hz”

I saw 133 and my brain jumped to conclusions. 😛 i guess that’s something else…

[Author]

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