[cronuss]

Hi.

I’ve been ripping my hair for weeks trying to research a new monitor to get. I’m excited now that I have found this forum, because it seems far more helpful than others I’ve tried!

I currently have an older Samsung SyncMaster 2253LW that I got as a gift many years ago. I have always had trouble with the black levels, black light bleed, etc.

I play a lot of games, from FPS to RPGS, Elder Scrolls, and everything in between. I also play some very dark games (and in the dark), such as the Amnesia series, Dark Souls, and so on. In games such as these, it is very difficult to get a decent quality picture, while also not losing all the detail in the scene. To get darker blacks, I have to turn everything so low that I end up losing all the detail in the scene. On the contrary, to get that detail back, I end up with very grey blacks and a lot of (banding?) and black light bleed, etc.

I am currently looking for around a 24″ monitor that has good black levels/contrast, has good overall image quality and colors, and has a decent or better response time. Looking to spend $300 or less. Hopefully non-glossy, or as little reflective as possible.

I came close to buying the ASUS VG248QE, but then saw a lot of complaints about poor colors, and even more poor black levels, BLB, etc. I love the idea of the GSYNC stuff, 120hz, Lightboost, low latency/response, etc, but not at the cost of a good quality image.

So, here I am, looking for an all-around good monitor. I don’t need the BEST black levels, the BEST colors, or the BEST latency… I just want an all around GOOD display.

Can anyone help me out with this? I’m driving myself crazy over this, and have been searching for weeks…

Thanks!

[PCM2]

Hi cronuss and welcome,

Given your desire for good strong contrast and the other criteria you’re after it seems to me that VA (Vertical Alignment) panels would be the best option. They provide unrivaled depth and atmosphere in dark scenes and show superb distinctions between darker and lighter shades. The current front-runner in my mind is the BenQ EW2440L. BenQ UK have been unable to provide a review sample yet so I haven’t tested it myself, but I expect several similarities to the EW2740L (27″ version). Strong contrast, relatively even dark illumination (i.e. low chance of problematic backlight bleed) and nicer colours than you’d typically see on a TN panel. Certainly nicer than the VG248QE by quite a margin.

Responsiveness is the big ‘question mark’ hanging over VA panels such as the EW2440L. Many gamers find this absolutely fine, especially on overdriven models like that (assuming similarities to the EW2740L here again). Input lag is not a problem at all and although the trailing does go beyond what you’d see on a faster 60Hz TN/IPS/PLS model it just doesn’t bother everyone. I don’t think you’d be truly satisfied with the dark reproduction on any ~24″ IPS/PLS panel due to the ‘glow’ we mention in the review coupled with static contrast that’s much weaker than on a VA panel. The VG248QE, being a TN panel, doesn’t have this ‘glow’ characteristic but tends to have issues with clouding. What’s more there are loads of ‘gamma enhancements’ going on as mentioned in the review, making dark areas look flooded. Poor visibility isn’t an issue, but proper depth and atmosphere is – and that’s something that VA panels can really provide.

I’m always a bit uncomfortable providing a recommendation for a model I haven’t thoroughly tested myself, but if you do want to go for the EW2440L and are buying online then going through somewhere with a good returns policy would be advisable.

[cronuss]

Thanks for the response.

After reading some of the similar threads here and doing some research, I actually came very close to buying a Dell U2414H last night. There was one left in stock at a local store, but someone walked away with it right before I could snag it. I see that I can get one on Newegg or Amazon for about $300.

Is it worth it, and more importantly do you think it would make me happy?

Outside of a few people with some blacklight bleed issues, it seems like it is a great all-around monitor, with pretty good contrast and black levels as well. My concern with buying it is that I am spending a bit more than I would prefer, and also not satisfying my needs as well as I could (or, likewise, getting something almost as good for half the price..)

Thanks again!

[PCM2]

The U2414H is a monitor that many users really like and provided it’s set up correctly (see review) it provides excellent all-round performance. It can’t reproduce blacks or dark scenes like the EW2440L but could still give contrast you’d find acceptable and undoubtedly produce colours you’d really like. Responsiveness is as good as it comes on a 60Hz monitor, too. If buying from Amazon please be sure to use the link at the bottom of our review. 🙂

[cronuss]

Is the EW2440L as good overall? As I said, while nice blacks are important to me, I don’t need the BEST. What is most important to me is having the overall best monitor I can get for $300 or less and about 22-24″.

If the EW2440L still have good colors, contrast, brightness, and doesn’t have terrible ghosting, then I will get it over the Dell, especially because it is $40 cheaper, and has great blacks and no bleed or glow.

What are your thoughts?

Also, I thought the U2414H came great out of the box, which was one of the only difference between it and the P2414H… as far as th at topic goes, what about the P2414H?

Again, to reiterate… I want nice blacks for playing games in a dark room, but I really just want an all around good looking and performing monitor 🙂

If you think the EW2440L is the one for that, I will order it right now probably.

[cronuss]

Hm, this video appears to show a lot of glow.

[PCM2]

Because I haven’t tested the EW2440L myself so I can only base this on my experience using similar models. The colours that both the U2414H and P2414H produce are somewhat richer towards the flanks of the screen and more varied overall – essentially, they are more accurate and perhaps more pleasing to the eye. But that is of course subjective. It’s worth reading this comparison of IPS and VA for some further analysis. For your uses the U2414H doesn’t really confer any advantage over the P2414H. It has thinner bezels that some users really like and an ‘sRGB’ mode which provides superior gamma accuracy. For your uses, though, both provide rich and varied colours that are well represented.

The main issue with the U2414H which is highlighted both in the review and this thread is that the DisplayPort doesn’t work properly with Nvidia GPUs – it provides the incorrect colour signal unless a custom resolution is used. The P2414H has DVI and there are no such issues. The issue is correctable on the U2414H using custom resolutions, but a few game titles essentially ignore them. So the recommendation for Nvidia users is actually to use an HDMI cable on the U2414H and use the ‘Full Range RGB Tool’ mentioned in the review.

[cronuss]

Again, I’m just looking for the best overall monitor for the price. While I said good blacks are important, I would settle for something that is at least a big improvement over my current Samsung 2253LW.

If you think the EW2740L/EW2440L fits that need better than the U2414H, then perhaps I will go that route.

Isn’t there also an ASUS that compares similarly to the EW2440L?

I very much appreciate all your help!

[PCM2]

They got a bad sample by the looks of things. Compare that with our one:

Many users have reported very positively on the EW2740L (and similar GW2760HS in Europe) in terms of black uniformity (lack of bleed etc.). The truth is you could find the P2414H/U2414H absolutely fine when it comes to contrast and love the colours. By the same token you should find the EW2440L to have excellent contrast (no IPS glow to worry about either) and should find the colours superior to your Samsung. Amazon’s returns policy should hopefully give you some peace of mind if you really don’t like the monitor and do need to return it.

And ASUS don’t have anything similar to the EW2440L. They have the VN279Q(LB) which is a 27″ model broadly similar to the EW2740L though.

[cronuss]

PCM2, you mentioned that the U2414H would give me problems because of my Nvidia card through HDMI not putting out a full range of color. Won’t I have the same problem with the EW2440L, since it only has VGA, DP, and HDMI? I assume this can be solved by using that tool you mentioned?

[PCM2]

That’s right, the EW2440L would share this image but it is entirely correctable using the ‘Full Range RGB’ tool mentioned in our reviews. It’s not really something to worry about as the fix is simple and permanent – being aware of the fix is the key thing there. 🙂

[Siamese Almeida]

Videos demonstrating glow wildly exaggerate the effect. In reality, you won’t actually notice any real glow from a VA screen. You *will* notice an abundance of glow from an IPS screen though. Especially if you’re set on darker media. In all my experience with IPS screens, the glow has actually been more pronounced and annoying than the youtube video you posted. VA screens do have a bit of a bluish “glow” to them when you look at an entirely black screen, but it’s only a consequence of the global gamma shift effect. This gamma shift is a cone extending from the center of your viewing angle, where the center is the darkest and everything extending from it is lighter. It’s something that can be off-putting to a degree and I definitely notice it, but it’s far, far less in-your-face annoying than IPS glow if you ask me. Easily tolerable.

VA screens have been a revelation for me. I’d choose them over IPS even if I wasn’t particularly set on darker/horror material simply because the deeper blacks lend a very perceptible boost to the contrast ratio that translates into a more vivid overall experience. If you’re looking to play games like Amnesia, Dark Souls, Dead Space or Silent Hill, then it’s a no brainer, you definitely want a VA screen.

Another benefit of VA screens is that they don’t seem to suffer from backlight glow (as in, the glow stemming from manufacture error) to the extent that TN and IPS screens do. My unit in particular has zero perceptible backlight glow and clouding/uniformity issues.

[saman_212]

Hello PCM2
I am going to get my 4th monitor in one year after attempts and failures with the previous monitors, my first monitor was a TN based panel, which I loathed it due to its atrocious off angle gamma shifting, the second one was an IPS MX239H, while it was practically far better than the TN based panel, I started to detest this monitor for its direful black level, the monitor was unable to produce anything close to black in full screen mode, then I jumped to the AMVA+ VN279h…This monitor was good in terms of contrast, and black level but, it had ugly black crush, which was evident in dark games, in tomb raider 2013 for example, some vegetations were black instead of dark green, and there was another problem with this monitor as well, and that was its pixel density which was too high.
I wanted to go back to VX239H, that I saw this out of the earth website, and I think I am a lucky lad, since I can use your expert opinions, which is great. I saw your posts/reviews about Samsung S24D390hl and it suddenly drew all my attention to itself, although I am inclined towards Samsung S24D590PL more because of it matte bezel, but I have a couple of questions
1: About S24390hl You mentioned green/ yellow tint in some units in one of your posts, can one work off and get rid of the tint entirely by adjusting blue/green/red level?
2: How do you describe the monitor’s grey scale and was there any black crush on the monitor, were you able to see all grey boxes in lagom.nl/lcd-test/ ?
3: how do you describe the monitor’s black level in a dark room, I don’t mind the IPS/PLS glow, but I am a little worried about seeing medium grey instead of black, the case which was true with MX239H, of course some people told me the reason of poor blacks on the MX was its edge to edge glass, don’t know if it is true.
4: Finally, currently in my country samsung S24D590PL is cheaper than VX239H, since samsung has a branch in my country but they import the Asus ones, What is your final verdict?
Thanks for your help

[PCM2]

Hi saman_212 and welcome,

I decided to place your post here as it’s an interesting topic, seems to fit with what you’re after and would be nice to ‘re-invigorate’, so to speak. I will prefix this by saying that you’ve discovered first hand that LCD technology is all about compromise.

Unfortunately you aren’t going to be able to find exactly what you’re want – it simply doesn’t exist at the moment. You’ve pretty much ruled out TN for reasons that apply universally to all Twisted Nematic panels out there. I’m also afraid to say that all VA panels suffer a degree of ‘black crush’, and actually AMVA+ technology tends to be best in this regard. It is a little better on smaller monitors, so you may find something like the BenQ EW2440L better. I also haven’t thoroughly tested some of the new curved VA models such as the Samsung S27D590C and S34E790C which may be somewhat better in that regard. And I do wonder if there was an underlying gamma or colour setup issue that accentuated the problem on the Iiyama – a monitor I haven’t used myself.

So given this, your best bet might be to stick with an IPS-type panel. But you have to have realistic expectations if you do go down that route. I’d recommend reading our thorough review of the Samsung S24D390HL if that’s a model you’re considering. It answers most of your questions. The tints present on some units can be present on all but extremely high end-models – and even they can develop them over time. On the S24D390HL the tint is generally weak and correctable. Again, the review covers this.

Blacks are never going to look truly black on any monitor with a ~1000:1 contrast ratio, unless observed under fairly bright lighting or on a glossy monitor with intense reflection. The bezels can affect perception of black depth to a degree, but it’s something I’ve seen some users blow completely out of proportion. Bezels on monitors like these are rather thin and are generally observed using peripheral vision. Such vision is not sensitive enough to distinguish between medium-dark grey and black nor surface textures such as glossy or matte. It would only really have an effect when observing the edge of the monitor or flicking your eyes between the screen and bezel, which doesn’t naturally happen.

I do wonder if there was another issue on the MX239H you observed. I take it you had corrected the colour signal as advised here? And when you refer to ‘your country’, where would that be? That might alter my recommendation and depending on the country and its consumer protection it may be less risky to simply go for a certain model and return it if you’re not satisfied.

P.S. The bezels on the S24D590PL are not matte, they’re glossy.

[saman_212]

Well, there is nothing better than having expert opinions of someone as knowledgeable as you… Well let me start with the last question you asked, yes I used the full rgb toggler with my gtx 780 6gb and while it improved blacks to a lot of extent, it felt something like medium grey in full-screen mode, or when it came to games like splinter cell black list, one could easily feel the black wash out through the game, of course, it was not all about the monitor , it was me who had been spoiled by CRT monitors for a long time, so I read everywhere about how blacks are good on AMVA+ and I bought one with this panel, only then did I understand that I can’t live another day with crushed blacks, so that’s why I have ruled out AMVA+ as an alternative as well, I mean PLS/IPS you may just miss the immersion in very dark games, not to mention you can remedy this by using some sorts of light in your room, but AMVA+ destroyed both bright and dark scenes for me, have you ever seen black shadows or black vegetation during a day in jungle? well I did on that AMVA+ monitor, God knows I spent hours and hours in a vain attempt to alleviate the situation, but it was all in vain, the amusing part, which I think everyone who wants to buy a VA panel should know,is that not only do dark shades turn into black, but also anything even very light grey or other light colors in vicinity of these dark shades turn into black as well…So my only option now is IPS/PLS… So I wanted to go with VX again but not now that I have a better choice like the Samsung, I read somewhere you said, you recommend the Samsung over the ASUS, so I am really excited to give it a try…and whether or not blacks are any good, I am going to live with it this time.
So the tint can be remedied easily so good news, about the bezel, the one that is being sold in Iran, my country, has a matte bezel, I called Samsung branch in Iran and the acknowledged that the bezel is matte. However, I have to say this that the product’s name in Iran is S24D595pl, they emphasised that it is exactly the same panel on S24D590PL with some modification like factory calibration etc…
I read your review once more… you mentioned, ” Performance on the black level test excellent. The first two blocks blended into the background quite readily, which is normal behaviour for a monitor with correct 2.2 gamma tracking.” that does not mean that there was any black crush? or the first two boxes could be distinctly seen? I remember on MX239H, I could see all black boxes was it the case on the monitor you reviewed?
Well this was my last question, and I can’t thank you enough for your website and the help you provided me, I introduced your website, to a family member who lives in Ipswich, he will join you soon, he also wants to buy a monitor, I said he wouldn’t find any better place to ask for someone’s expert opinions…truly your website is second to none. Thank you again.

[saman_212]

One more thing, upon my digging in further, some say that IPS has better colours than PLS… do you confirm this? If that is dependant on model, let’s compare VX239H and S24D390HL OR S24D590PL … sorry for asking too much but I really don’t have anyone else to ask these questions from, and now you are my only hope for making the best decision… Thank you again

[PCM2]

The Samsung S24D595PL sounds similar to the S24D590PL, then. I wasn’t aware that they have changed the bezel to matte on this one – that is an interesting change from the S24D590PL. The S24D390HL does have slightly more accurate colours (better gamma tracking and white point) compared to the S24D590PL, but it’s fairly close.

The ASUS VX239H is not set up as nicely as the Samsung models, the gamma tracking is a bit off in comparison and white point tends to stray further from the 6500K daylight target. Furthermore it has a non-adjustable pixel overdrive solution which is too aggressive, giving some inverse ghosting. It is complete rubbish that IPS is ‘better’ than PLS, it does indeed depend on the panels. And these AD-PLS panels that Samsung use have impressed me slightly more than any comparable AH-IPS panel when it comes to raw image performance.

On the ‘black crush’ and Lagom issue. The 2.2 gamma curve calls for the darkest shades (e.g. two darkest blocks on Lagom) to be fairly close to black in their representation. That isn’t black crush – it’s how shades are supposed to be displayed according to the common 2.2 curve. The first two shades are not invisible, you can still see them. But they aren’t supposed to stand out in an obvious way – if they do, your monitor is not calibrated to follow the standard 2.2 gamma curve. You can set the Samsung to ‘Gamma = Mode2’ if you want these to be highly visible.

I’m not aware of the consumer protection laws in Iran, but perhaps if there is a way to see the Samsung models or get them in a way you can easily return if not satisfied it would be best. I feel the Samsung models will offer what you’re looking for. You also get good flexibility in the OSD to correct/tweak the image according to your preferences.

[saman_212]

PCM2… Well what can I say? You are a miracle, I had never seen anything like this before, a website like yours , where you can directly talk to an expert and work off all your doubts before your purchasing a product…Thank you, thank you and again thank you. I will most probably buy the monitor on Saturday, and will share my experience with other readers who want to buy this product, they won’t need that when they have got such a knowledgeable person around though…Thanks once more

[PCM2]

My pleasure. And I really hope the monitor is what you’re looking for.

[saman_212]

Hi Pcm2… I got my Samsung monitor today and I can’t be any happier…
Just writing down my review for your readers who may want to buy the same monitor in the future, this monitor is literally second to none in its own class, no wonder PCM2 spoke highly of the monitor, out of the box it needed some calibration, I set brightness to 61 and left contrast on 75 and sharpness at 68, some may say that is too sharp, but I really like the way it is right now, good news is that I didn’t notice any tint on my monitor, I also left blue/green at 50 and red at 48, I didn’t need to calibrate this part much, whites are white and blacks are deep and inky during the day, at night with all lights off with brightness still at 61 and with a very fade lampshade, blacks are decent and resemble dark grey in full screen and while gaming they were just as good as they were during the day, and in dark games I didn’t notice any wash out, bear in mind that I am coming from AMVA+ as well…I put gamma mode to 3, and put HDMI black level to normal, I just wonder why I did not need to use Nvidia full RGB toggler, seems my monitor detected the full RGB correctly? Indeed I tried switching to full RGB mode using the toggler but it gave me black crush even at gamma mode at 1 so I reverted to original settings, and now I think everything is set
at lagom LCD test I saw all black squares pretty well except for 1 and 2 which were really close to the black background, but still they could be distinguished, white saturation was very good also, all square could be seen the last one was a little hard to see, similar to what I had seen on AMVA+ and I don’t think it’s a bad thing
The only negligible problem I witnessed was in an all white screen the right part of the monitor, where usually the scroll bar is located there were some strange shades of very very light grey, when I move my head to right and align my view point with them, the disappear! I hope this is not a major problem …

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