March 10, 2018 at 5:33 pm #47330
Are there monitors that have specifics that makes them even easier on the eyes, or are those two models about as good as it gets, in that regard?March 10, 2018 at 5:51 pm #47331
The C24FG70/73 would potentially be better as it has a VA panel with lighter matte screen surface and wider colour gamut backlight (‘more balanced’ spectrum, although still uses blue diodes).March 12, 2018 at 9:44 pm #47340
Ok. I think i’ll stick to the lg or the viewsonic, i don’t like curved monitors. I was worried that those monitors could be heavy on the eyes, but they probably can’t be worse than the one i’m using right now, and it’s very tolerable.
Thanks for all the suggestions, i’ll make sure to use your links when i’ll order the rest of the pc and proceed with the monitor aquisition.March 13, 2018 at 6:35 am #47341
No problem, and your support would be appreciated. 🙂March 13, 2018 at 4:44 pm #47345
This is my experience with the XG2401 and the XG2402 monitors from ViewSonic. I copied this from the YouTube comment section, where I posted this originally.
I don’t have time to make any correction so it may have some incorrect newbie information regarding color calibration and whatnot.
I have also won’t post old incorrect information from the YT comments that I posted earlier.
EDIT: ( Forgot to link the YT comment thread)
Here is the full YT comment thread for more continuity if you’re interested: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AxpMggy_nvo&lc=z23fetu5gp3hyzenracdp4354swxi4jmzd2a3dwlsqtw03c010c.1520174718284630
“I measured 75,1 cd/m2 at 0% brightness on my XG2402 and that’s just way too bright for me when I use my monitor in a dark or dimly lit room. I figured that Pc Monitor’s measured brightness at 84 cd/m2 at 0% brightness can’t be that bright, but it is just a bit too bright for me at night. With blue light reduction at 100 % and warm colour temperature I get a brightness of 56,1 cd/m2, maybe I should mess around with gamma to get it even lower or use a software but that’s not ideal. I don’t want to watch a tv series/movie or game at night in blue reduction mode or a very warm color temperature or messed up gamma settings. I read in Pc Monitors’ review that the XG2401 has a much lower brightness value of 29 cd/m2 at 0% which much more ideal for me. I was even considering getting the LG 24GM79G over the VeiwSonics, but it’s way to bright for night viewing at 111,47 cd/m2 at 0% brightness setting according to Lim’s Cave’s review and that’s just absurd.”
“My first impressions of the XG2401, playing around in the settings and calibrating it with my half decent spyder 4 pro, is that my unit has a more warmer yellow-y white than my calibrated XG2402, that one has a cooler, bluish tint to the whites and reddish skin tones compared to the XG2401, which has more natural skin tones, not reddish.
Overall the XG2401 is more natural in the image, the whites look more as they should do, same for the skin tones.
The XG2402 which has a sharpness setting in the OSD menu which I can’t change due to it being grayed out, seems to have a really high built in sharpness setting compared to my XG2401, which is set at standard 50% sharpness.
Even if the sharpness is set to 100% sharpness on my XG2401, it still isn’t as sharp as my XG2402.
But I don’t like the overly sharp picture on the XG2402, icons on the desktop become too sharp, intro text in movies is way too sharp, I much prefer the sharpness handling on my XG2401.
But I must say on the XG2402, small details like hair strands do look noticeably more detailed and sharper, it definitely poops out more, in a pleasing way, less flat compared to the XG2401, but that’s about it, that’s not enough to make me like the overly sharp picture in other areas of the picture sadly.
I measured 2,0 gamma on my XG2401, this one doesn’t have different gamma settings to choose from sadly, so I was mostly stuck at 2,0 gamma.
On the XG2402 I measured 2,1 gamma at the 2,8 gamma setting in the OSD menu.
On the XG2402 I could adjust the black stabilization setting to get the gamma at 2,2.
The same could not be done on the XG2401, no matter what I set the black stabilization setting on, the gamma still was less or at maximum of 2,0 gamma, I could not get it up to 2,2 gamma.
But I will try lowering the gamma in the Nvidia control panel to see if I can get it up to the 2,2 gamma, even if that isn’t an ideal option (I’m not at all well read on GPU software gamma compared to built in hardware gamma on the monitor, someone knowledgeable will have to fill in that for me), still that’s what I’m hoping for will fix the gamma to 2,2.
I really love that I can go as low as 29,1 cd/m2 in terms of brightness on the XG2401, compare that the XG2402, I can only go as low as 75,1 cd/m2, which is too bright for me at night viewing, I don’t like it.
So all in all, for now at least, I’m leaning more towards keeping the XG2401 which can go lower in brightness, has a more natural warmer picture, adjustable sharpness setting, which is more important to me than what the XG2402 offers in pros.
I don’t care for the different customization preset settings on the XG2402, I can make my own DDC/CI shortcuts for brightness and blue light reduction on my desktop, far easier than having to navigate a clunky OSD menu, even if the XG2402 has a dedicated preset button for that, still clunky navigation in the dark.
I can just set it to schedule the different presets on my computer instead through DDC/CI controls.”
“***Now, this is only what I’ve learned so far and I’m by no means an expert on this by any stretch, highly take that into consideration before reading any further.
As for your question Erick. I would think that the picture quality is quite better on the XG2401 if I didn’t have my XG2402 to compare it to. I myself wouldn’t be pleased with my XG2402, but if I didn’t have any other choice I’d be quite pleased with it anyways, apart from a few things I’ll be touching on down below.
But when I do use them side by side…
As I mentioned before, the cooler color temperature in whites and reddish skin tones even after calibration on my XG2402, do bother me compared to my XG2401 and I’m not fond of the overly sharp picture on my XG2402 which can’t be adjusted like on my XG2401.
On my XG2402 the blacks aren’t as black either especially 100% black, they look more bluish compared to my XG2401 which actually looks black at 100% black.
My XG2401 also has less clouding, back-light bleed and better uniformity than my XG2402 at 100% black picture, it’s quite the difference side by side in that department, but all panels are different to each other even in the same monitor series, it’s a case to case issue in this case, so another XG2401 could have worse clouding, back-light bleed and all around uniformity than another XG2402.
But those things are just my personal taste and opinion, some people like a cooler, icy bluish picture to the whites and some like a warmer tone like me, which also seems more natural.
Your eyes adjust to whatever picture you are watching and most of the time and make you think that the colors are natural anyways unless it’s really, really off, which it isn’t in this case between these two monitors.
I myself has a very high demand in this case and don’t like it when I can get something better, so I don’t want anything to do with my version of the XG2402 when I can keep my much prefered XG2401 instead and have everything adjusted to my taste, which I can’t on the XG2402.
But! The XG2402 does have a bit better blur reduction overdrive than the XG2401 as you can see on the PcMonitors.info review. But I’m pleased with how it is on the XG2401 anyway.
Another important thing to mention though, that really bothers me, is the gamma tracking on my XG2402.
It has quite bad gamma and grey-scale tracking at different drive signals, from 0% to 100%. This will affect the blacks detail and blackness and colors vibrancy.
It just doesn’t track that evenly throughout, the lower, darker grey and black from about 0% to 50% tracks to high at around 1.8 to 1.9 gamma and the brighter, grey and white from 50% to 100% tracks at around 2.2-2.4, so quite bad inconsistency and unevenness in both the gamma curve and grey-scale tracking.
No matter what I set to get either part to get lower or higher gamma in the OSD gamma setting, black stabilization setting, Nvidia control panel gamma setting or ICC profile calibration, it just can’t level out the high end and the low end of the gamma tracking.
On my XG2401 the gamma already tracks quite evenly at all drive signals from 0 to 100% and the average gamma stays around 2.0 out of the box and by tweaking either the black stabilization setting or Nvidia gamma setting, I can get the gamma to track quite evenly at 2.2 gamma or whichever gamma I want it set to.
I used the BasICColor display 5 trial version calibration software instead of the i1 profiler software that comes with the X-Rite i1Display Pro colorimeter this time, and measured the low black luminance to 0,12 cd/m2, giving my XG2402 a contrast ratio of 986:1 at 120 cd/m2.
I measured a contrast ratio of 1095:1 on my XG2401 with my X-Rite i1Display Pro colorimeter and BasICColor display 5 software, with a measured low black luminance of 0,11 cd/m2 at 120 cd/m2 brightness setting.
My XG2402 seems to have quite a bit more color banding than my XG240, with and without ICC profiles.
It has very noticeable gradient (it really, really shows visible lines separating color gradients) steps compared to my XG2401 which has a very smooth gradual gradient and not much apparent banding, at least on the The Lagom LCD monitor test pages (better implemented FRC)? Of course, both these TN panels still show plenty of color banding in other pictures displayed as with many 6 bit + FRC TN panels or even other display technologies at that color bit depth, but it’s nothing that really bothers me or sticks out that much in the majority of content displayed on the monitors.
I personally, really like the rougher finish of the front of the plastic surface on the XG2401 compared to the much smoother surface on the XG2402.
I also very much like the colored, sculpted ViewSonic logo of three (Parrots?) in the top left corner of the monitor’s frame, just the overall more classic design apart from the red elsewhere, of course.
I’m just a huge sucker for old-school design.
I don’t mind the lower part of the monitor frame either, I quite like the slight curvature of it, and the VierwSonic logo text and button icons doesn’t really bother me at all, I actually much prefer it.
The bottom part of the stand, the base, more precisely is the part I’m not that fond of, it could do without the curves and especially the red accents.
But that I will be mounting my XG2401 on a monitor arm that I purchased from amazon basics, I could go on about the monitor arm too, but I won’t do it to keep it shorter, haha.
Now, which one of the two monitors would I choose?
I will be choosing to keep the XG2401 and return the XG2402.
When I calibrated my XG2401, I could get most things on it near perfect to where I would want it to be.
The gamma, even if it tracks at around 2.0-2.1, could be easily fixed by upping the gamma settings in the Nvidia settings panel.
After that the gamma tracked quite flat and close to 2.2-2.3, calculated in Calman v4 calibration software.
I could get the RGB color balance both on the low gain and high gain very balanced without the ICC profile even.
The gray-scale tracked nicely with a ICC profile under any noticeable delta errors for the human eye, the same for the colors. I’m very happy with the results I got with this.
Color temperature was around 6500 Kelvin for both monitors without issue.
Out of the box, you will be fine without any colorimiter to do adjustments to the picture in the OSD on both monitors.
For my XG2402 OSD settings:
I set the gamma at 2.6 and maybe bring the black stabilization setting down a couple of steps to get the gamma nice and low at around 2.2, but I kept it at 11 default which keeps the detail in dark elements a bit better to my taste.
I’ve set my contrast to 70, default.
Brightness to 14% for 120 cd/m2
Color adjust RGB to:
Sharpness: can’t change it, locked, grayed out in the OSD.
Keep in mind these settings may differ greatly on the effects it has on the picture on different XG2402 samples.
For my XG2401 OSD settings:
There is no gamma setting in the OSD. I set the gamma in Nvidia control panel to 0.95 instead, to get it to 2.2 gamma.
I’ve set my contrast to 70, default.
Brightness to 25% for 120 cd/m2.
color adjust RGB to:
Sharpness: 50, default.
Keep in mind these settings may differ greatly on the effects it has on the picture on different XG2401 samples.
I’ll maybe give more updates like this if I encounter any new information I’d like to share with you.
But that’s it so far, feel free to ask me any further questions.”March 13, 2018 at 4:55 pm #47347
Thanks for posting your extensive feedback over here, it’s very welcome. And your feedback with respect to the contrast of the XG2402 was also also nice to see when you originally posted it on YouTube.
What I would say, though, is this helps highlight the huge amount of inter-unit variation that exists on these monitors. I have also received feedback from a user who owns both the XG2401 and XG2402 and prefers the latter due in part to the same reasons you prefer the former. His XG2401 not only has gamma that is too low on average, but also crosses over the desireable ‘2.2’ curve only at some points. You therefore can’t correct it by simply adjusting gamma in the graphics driver – because that can only displace the curve left or right. He has an X-Rite i1DisplayPro as well so it’s a useful comparison to make. The XG2402 on the other hand, set up more or less as per our ‘Test Settings’, has very good gamma tracking. Much like our review sample. But unlike our review sample (but like yours) his contrast was closer to 1000:1 on the XG2402.
I know from experience with a plethora of monitors using the AU Optronics M240HW01(V8) that the inter-panel variation is horrendous. So it makes it very difficult to recommend one model over the other. I think in terms of OSD flexibility and liklihood of being able to achieve a decent image with OSD adjustments alone, the XG2402 is the superior choice. Which is why it now features as a recommendation. However; given the contrast issues we had on our unit and the inter-unit variation I won’t be awarding it the recommended badge. Oddly enough somebody recently asked if they should upgrade from the XG2401 to the XG2402, even though they were entirely satisfied with their XG2401 (including in terms of motion performance). I think my answer to that was obvious…
P.S. The FRC is implemented at the panel level, so that does not vary between models that use this same panel. Different native gamma handling of the panel and differences in setup can affect how obvious dithering is in some situations, however.March 13, 2018 at 5:49 pm #47348
Good to know that there can be a huge variation even between inter-units as you described as this highlights indeed. Yes, I could only displace the gamma curve, left or right as you said to an ok level where the low end of the gamma curve was above 2.2 and the high end at around 2.4 at the brightest. Appreciate the knowledge input on this topic, will definitely come in handy when I test my two Asus monitors, the Asus MG248QR and the Asus PG258Q.
I also tested the Samsung cfg73 VA panel monitor and wasn’t really satisfied with it. I didn’t like how the text looked on it (Didn’t really notice it until I read about it and couldn’t stop being annoyed by it after that). The navigational button joystick was a bit plasticky sounding when pressed in to confirm actions in the OSD, no easy access direct power on and off button, annoying blue led light when its on standby( don’t want to use tape, can’t turn it off on standby sadly), red tint to skin tones( I hate it, I really do), It had a good sRGB emulation mode though.
The strobing feature got me really hooked, after that I just needed a monitor with that feature. The back-light strobing feature wasn’t satisfactory on the Samsung though, couldn’t adjust brightness, too bright even at day and a lot of cross talk/ghosting on the UFO tests( didn’t notice it in-game though). With the strobing turned off the image was a bit smeary and had some ghosting in UFO tests, again I didn’t really notice it in-game compared to the ViewSonic, but I just couldn’t shake the thought of having a slower VA panel compared to a potentially faster TN panel in terms of pixel response time even If I couldn’t tell that much of a difference (I rushed trough the testing, didn’t really have much time with it). I didn’t really care for the increased contrast, I couldn’t measure the low black luminance on the Samsung for some reason, it just returned 0,00 cd/m2 or similar in all the two calibration software I tested.
But the rest of the image was very satisfactory, gamma tracked evenly and the colors was really accurate, under any visible delta errors right out of the box without any OSD adjustments or ICC profiles applied.
I still returned the Samsung and had to return the both of the ViewSonics due to the time limit on returns and me wanting/needing a good implemented strobed back-light feature.
The LG 24gm79g was a no go, read that many had problems with crushed blacks and other artifacts.
Tested the Acer xb241h, only 500:1 contrast in ULMB mode and the colors was worse, about 600:1 with ICC profile and about 900:1 contrast ratio in normal G-sync mode at 144Hz without an ICC profile.
I tested the ULMB plus G-sync on at the same time hack, I worked really well but I could notice a black strobing patter even on the highest width setting in the OSD, but only if I looked really closely for it, otherwise it didn’t make the picture look worse or bothered me at all.
Couldn’t really get the colors balanced even with the ICC profile, I haven’t’ tried the 6-point color adjust in the OSD yet though, that might fix the color delta errors. I haven’t tested the gamma tracking either. But the poor contrast with ULMB on is a deal breaker even thought I liked having G-sync and ULMB on at the same time, It could go as low as around 50 Hz/FPS without being too flickery( I’m not really that sensitive to flickering anyways) but big changes in refresh-rate/FPS does produce very obvious flicker of course. Still nice to have G-sync on at the samt time to remove judder or tearing in small FPS drops.
Right now I don’t wan to go with a WQHD monitor due to the increased load on the GPU, can’t really drive that many pixels at those high refresh rates with my current setup.
Buying a monitor for 300 to 500 EUR is over budget for me anyways and don’t want to spend it on a new GPU, motherboard, CPU and what have you.
As I mentioned, I’m testing the Asus MG248QR and the Asus PG258Q, I’ll share my findings about those two as well:)March 13, 2018 at 6:14 pm #47349
Excellent, your continued feedback is very welcome. Technically the ASUS PG258Q is ‘off-topic’ for this thread, but I’ll let that slide as I don’t doubt users would be interested in it and how it compares to the likes of the ViewSonic. Having tested the ViewSonic XG2530 and AOC AG251FG which use the same panel, I’d be interested if you notice any obvious interlace pattern artifacts.June 16, 2018 at 7:37 am #47487
As an addition to this thread, I’d like to share some thoughts the new 24.5″ AUO panel used in the likes of the AOC G2590PX, Acer KG251QF and ASUS VG258Q. Based on what I saw on the AOC, there have been some enhancements to colour reproduction and viewing angle performance. Colour gamut is just slight wider and there is a less pronounced gamma shift further down the screen. Things do look a bit richer overall as a result. So that was nice to see.
Now onto the negatives. Whilst by no means slow, the AOC was not as snappy as the ViewSonic XG2402 in terms of pixel response times. Other models may have better pixel overdrive tuning than the AOC, that’s not necessarily a panel characteristic. But there could be some underlying weaknesses with the panel. As a point of comparison, there are some transitions that all 240Hz 24.5″ models seem to struggle slightly with as well. A key reason we recommend the ViewSonic over the AOC, though, is that we found the ‘interlace pattern artifacts’ a bit too obvious on the AOC. I’m hoping this doesn’t affect all models using the panel or perhaps even all units, but I can’t make any promises about that until I’ve tested others using the panel. Not everybody is as sensitive to such things as I am, but I just feel it’s something that might put some users off and is a definite advantage for the ViewSonic.June 18, 2018 at 2:30 pm #47549
Ive seen so much good gaming monitors that its impossible for me to choose one so i need your help.
Was thinking about one with a tn panel like the (AOC G2590PX, benq zowie xl2411p or Acer KG251QF) or any other better one if you recommend.
Or one with a va panel with low response time like (Samsung lc24CFG73) or should i wait for the (aoc c24g1) to come out?
Also should i buy one with 27inc or 24inch??
And finally what happened to the asus vg258q?June 18, 2018 at 2:33 pm #47552
I’ve merged your thread with this one (and shortened your name slightly). This addresses the models you’re considering and makes my recommendations plus thoughts on the 24.5″ models clear. As for the ASUS VG258Q, nothing has happened to it, they simply haven’t released it yet.
To help you out a bit. Regarding the BenQ XL2411P – https://forum.pcmonitors.info/topic/1080p-144hz-monitor/page/9/#post-45430
And with respect to the Samsung CFG73, note that I do recommend that model specifically. It’s very similar to the C24FG70 we’ve reviewed in detail, with a different stand and guaratee of relatively new revision. It offers superior contrast, colour vibrancy and consistency compared to the TN models. But it has some weaknesses in pixel responsiveness as highlighted in the review. It’s very subjective – some users find those weaknesses bothersome, others do not. It’s something you’ll have to decide for yourself really, and reading about my subjective experiences and viewing the videos that accompany the CFG70 review will give you the best idea short of seeing it yourself really. Also note that some users dislike text rendering on the CFG70/73 models.
I do think the AOC C24G1 will be an interesting alternative and it uses a slightly different panel, but either way I can pretty much guarantee you it won’t be as responsive as the ViewSonic XG2402 and other fast TN models.June 18, 2018 at 3:15 pm #47553
Samsung 24inch LC24FG73 or Samsung 27″ LC27FG70?
In my country the Samsung 24inch LC24FG73 is cheaper 30 euros.June 18, 2018 at 3:36 pm #47554
The preferred model designations are just C24FG73 and C27FG70. You can drop the ‘L’ prefix and any additional suffixes that Samsung likes to add to their full model designations. The 27″ CFG70/73 models are actually slower than the 23.5″ models. Some users like that because there is less overshoot, but others dislike it because you get more smearing and conventional trailing. Personally I don’t really think they deliver a convincing 144Hz experience and that’s why I don’t really recommend them alongside the 24″ models, but it’s subjective really.June 18, 2018 at 5:08 pm #47555
ive decided to choose between the samsung 24FG73 and the aoc c24g1.
The aoc is 60 euros less but the samsung has a quantum dot va panel instead of the normal va.
Is this worth the 60 euros?June 18, 2018 at 5:34 pm #47556
It depends on whether you admire a more vibrant image or prefer a more ‘natural’ look. There will be further differences, but you’re going to have to wait for a full review of the C24G1 for those to become apparent. Realistically that won’t be until August at the earliest and it really depends on which other models are available as well.
P.S. Quantum Dots are used as part of a backlight, so it’s potentially misleading to classify it as ‘quantum dot VA panel’. It is just a VA panel with Quantum Dot LED backlight instead of a regular WLED backlight. You may understand this, but it’s an important difference to raise because as explored in that article I’ve linked to Quantum Dots are one way or enriching the colour gamut of the backlight. They serve no additional purpose as implemented here.June 19, 2018 at 3:24 pm #47557June 19, 2018 at 3:26 pm #47559
Have I not made my thoughts on this clear earlier on in this thread? If you’ve read the reviews and this post then there’s really nothing more to add, you’re going to have to make your own decision on that but my own recommendation is clear.June 19, 2018 at 3:55 pm #47560
What if we add the Samsung CFG73 to the equation?
Samsung CFG73 = 242 €
I’m sorry, but I’m very hesitant among these three.
Are they the best choice for 250€?June 19, 2018 at 4:12 pm #47561
Again, I have covered this already in this thread. Please read some of the recent replies in this thread rather than making me repeat myself unnecessarily. 🙂June 26, 2018 at 6:59 am #47620
Sooo… The ViewSonic XG2402 would be the better choice over the BenQ XL2411P or do they both use the same panel. I’ve been able to find a lot of in-depth reviews of the XG2402, but I just can’t find anything on the XL2411P other than it being the successor to the XL2411. Regardless, I’d really appreciate someone’s opinion on which of the two monitors that would be the better choice. Thanks!
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