[sblantipodi]

What do you think about the “Automatically manage color for apps” Windows 11 feature?

I disabled it the first time I installed Windows and I forgot about it.
Some days ago I updated to 24H2 and that features turned on automatically without me realizing it.

I started seeing weird colours on my monitor and I tought that I was tired, next day, same weird colors. Restarted, turned on/off hdr but nothing.
I had been on vacation for a while and I thought my eyes had forgotten the real colors of my monitor

It took me 48 hours to find the solution and to see that
Automatically manage color for apps
was enabled.

that damn feature destroyed the gamut coverage of my monitor.
AdobeRGB has been lowered from 99% to 70%

Ok, it is “probably” good for people that want to work in the sRGB color space without having a colorimeter,
but at this point, why sell wide gamut monitors?
Why set an option like that as a default option?

This means that Microsoft is trying to cap all wide gamut monitors to sRGB by default.
I don’t think that this is a good move.

And what about you?
Did you remembered to disable that feature in windows? 😀

[PCM2]

This appears to be the Auto Color Management (ACM) feature which Microsoft have been ‘raving’ about for a little while now. I don’t have this feature on my Windows 11 system and having communicated with some others it seems not all systems have it. It seems to be more widely available on laptops than desktops. I don’t yet know whether it will be added to all systems (and enabled by default) as of the Windows 11 24H2 update – but I don’t have this update yet as Microsoft are still rolling it out. What system are you using where this is both available and enabled by default?

As I understand it the feature will use the same EDID information used by other GPU-level sRGB emulation methods. I agree it shouldn’t be enabled by default, but I’m not sure of the conditions where that is true yet. Another thing to be aware of with ACM is that it will cause even colour-aware applications to ignore any applied ICC profiles, even if you happen to have calibrated a monitor with ACM active. The workaround is a bit awkward (though at least there is one) as you have to individually apply ‘legacy colour management’ to any application you want to use ICC profiles. I would like to test it as a simple gamut clamp and see how it works, but I simply can’t as I don’t seem to have the feature.

[sblantipodi]

mmm… I sincerely don’t know if I had this feature before Windows 11 24H2, but now I have 24H2 and that feature is enabled by default.
For sure, I don’t enabled it. That feature “is re-enabled automatically” every time I change a setting into the nvidia driver control panel.
To workaround the problem I can simply disable it, there is a toggle in windows to enable/disable it.

This is the gamut volume of my calibrated monitor without that feature:
https://i.postimg.cc/ncJ7kGYd/gamut-recap.png

and this is the gamut volume with that feature enabled
https://i.postimg.cc/Bn3gjGVn/Immagine-2024-10-03-113317.png

[PCM2]

Interesting. And what is the gamut volume with the “ACM / Automatically Manage color for apps” feature disabled but the novideo_srgb clamp (covered in the sRGB emulation article) used?

[sblantipodi]

in the video in that article you say that Windows apps are not color aware but as far as I know, today most apps are color aware because most apps inherit this functionality from windows itself.

apps that uses a standard UI inherit this from windows because the UI is rendered by the windows API (ok you use a toolkit but that toolkit most probably uses the Windows API under,
apps that needs to render something theirself 2D or 3D needs to do that their self.

chrome browser is color managed for example.
even spotify, looks different with and without the ICC loaded.

pretty all games are not color managed but in my opinion it’s better to not try to color manage HDR contents even because most “consumer monitors” can’t be even calibrated when in HDR.
ok not all games are HDR but in that case why not to use RTX HDR if you have an nvidia card? 🙂

probably I’m wrong, you are the boss, if it’s not true please correct me 🙂

regarding the driver clamp, I have an nvidia so I downloded the utility from github and I would say that it produces exactly the same result of the windows feature.
https://i.postimg.cc/Bn3gjGVn/Immagine-2024-10-03-113317.png
differences are in the margin of error of my colorimeter.

I would not be surprised if Windows uses the functionality offered by the drivers itself.

[PCM2]

Sorry if it was ambiguous, but you are misinterpreting what was said in the video. I specifically stated that profiling “will work great if the application is colour managed”. I then stated or implied that “The desktop environment here on Windows, playing games and watching video content with hardware acceleration enabled” are examples where colour management is not used. To be clear, when I said “the desktop environment” I meant that literally – when you’re on the Windows desktop staring at your wallpaper, observing icons, looking at various buttons and UI elements in Windows itself. Not if you’re specifically using a colour managed application and looking at the main contents of that. 🙂 That video was never meant as a standalone, it is simply meant to supplement the article which clearly explains things, to draw attention to the article and some of the tools available and to briefly showcase sRGB emulation on the monitor and GPU level.

And yes, it appears (as I suspected) that ACM draws from the same EDID information as the gamut clamps. I don’t know if Microsoft intended it to be enabled by default (and again, I haven’t seen for myself whether it is or know if this applies universally), but it is problematic if so. The EDID information isn’t perfect and ACM specifically circumvents ICC profile corrections which messes up traditional colour management for those ICC-aware applications. There are certainly plenty of people who want to have the vibrant and strongly saturated look of a wide gamut monitor even if it goes against any ‘sRGB intentions’ of the content being viewed. I think Microsoft is trying to push this too aggressively and should disable it by default, because it’s a sudden change in behaviour that many will be unaware is happening. And if they’re following traditional advice regarding sRGB emulation or are profiling the screen that will not work properly (or in the case of sRGB emulation will actually undersaturate the image) if ACM is enabled.

[sblantipodi]

thanks for the explanation PCM2, I appreciate it.
I had seen the video without listening to it carefully and had drawn the wrong conclusions.

Let’s see if ACM will became the default for everyone or if it’s only a problem of mine.
All in all that settings returns to “enabled” every time I change something in the nvidia control panel so at this point I have even doubts on what is the real default.

[Degrader]

ACM is indeed the default on Windows 11. And I’m experiencing exactly the same issues as you. Every time I change the color depth to a higher value (e.g. from 8-bit to 10-bit, not reproducable vice versa), then ACM will be turned on automatically. But for me it can also be functional, if I’m using the native color gamut of my XG321UG (85% BT2020), then ACM clamps the color space correctly to sRGB to prevent oversaturated colors in several apps and games.

[PCM2]

Thanks for confirming, it looks like it probably is the default behaviour then. That plus it activating again when switching certain Nvidia settings is going to catch quite a few people out I suspect. It muddies the waters as a reviewer when talking about how things will look on a monitor with regular settings (full gamut) vs. sRGB (restricted gamut) if a person is restricting their gamut using ACM without even realising. 🙄

[PCM2]

I’ve finally got the Windows 11 24H2 update and confirm that ACM was not enabled by default on my system (mileage may vary), but it does indeed activate itself if you increase bit-depth in the graphics driver. I’ve put together a quick (it was really quite spontaneous, not scripted and polished) video to raise awareness of the feature and to share some of my thoughts about it.

[sblantipodi]

thanks for sharing and for the informative video.
I don’t see the point in enabling ACM when increasing bit depth in the graphics driver, it should be the opposite.

this will cause a lot of confusion for less experienced users and for users who are less attentive to color differences.

[Degrader]

I’ve build a new office pc for an uncle of me. It is based on an Intel i3-14100 and it is using the integrated UHD Graphics 730. And I need to correct myself, because ACM was not enabeld by default with a clean installation of Windows 11. And remarkable, ACM was not even enabled automatically enabled when increasing the color depth in the Intel display settings, also not when changing the color format or resetting the settings. So maybe this is an Nvidia only issue?

[PCM2]

Ah that’s interesting. Thanks for sharing those observations. AMD usually defaults to 10-bit if I recall correctly so I wonder how things play out there as well.

[Author]

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